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Old 04-07-2014, 11:43 PM   #61 (permalink)
 
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Here is a link for those who would like a first person account of the dogs from Ironline kennels.

Click on Legend to return to Website. Email before registering. Click here x to return to :: View topic - Other Bloodlines bred by Ironline Kennels.
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:29 AM   #62 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firehazard View Post
Lightner had the first SEAL dog........

obviously you've missed something or decided that you'd take a GENETIC point of view as a personal attack mixing it with my own personal opinion in which I was pretty sure there was a evident puncation to indicate seperation in thought.

Also....... you guys in your group have gotta quit takin everything as a personal insult and throwing out insults that tend to get personal.

Just had some of the blood in him... LOL look at that dogs pedigree he's all old family top to bottom. Goemon in your own words a post back you also call Dibo Old family.. better go edit it. Also I said (hair that APPEARS to be black but is actually red) Also in other OFRN genetic discussion the topic of the 'Black' nails on the red nosed dog with copper eyes was the dog truest to old red nosed dogs was bragged on by you fellas.

Also...... you arent only old timers out there who rubbed shoulders with heinzl, Jp, or Lightner... I see you promote corvino corvino corvino yet you dis other dogs with as much corvino as many OFRN those inbred DIBO dogs.

Matter a fact if the people arent worshiping the ground and words yall speak; out come insults and bashing.. think not ?? FOLLOW EVERY convo that ya'll have ever been banned because of. Ya'll get pissed off and throw bricks instead of good sense. Also many times ya'll are wrong or have double talked yourselves and unlike myself.... refuse to acknowledge the mistake made in dialogue, when yall make em.
No, you were discrediting the OFRNR and their standards, all based on historical facts, not the new age, give my doggy a bone mentality. My concern isn't with your opinion, but the fact newbies read this and it doesn;t help them. You, as a mod, should know newbies are already down the wrong road, so point them in the right direction, instead of confusing them even more.

Personal insult? If I were angry I'd be cussing...IM can speak for himself, and doesn't need me. But you can be sure whose side I take. But I'm the type that doesn't get mad often, and when I do I am past the point of talking.

Where do you ever seeing me throw out the Corvino dogs, other than they are my favorites? Nothing wrong with having a favorite line to follow. Too many out there to get them all. Why not choose what you think are the best. Your grandpa seemed to have a good choice. But nothing is wrong with Dibo dogs.

Worship the ground? LOL, I, for one, could care less what people think of me. Fewer people I know, the better.
Group? You will have to be more specific.

And I rarely, if ever, throw bricks. I took nothing personal..on the contrary, I was trying to help newbies learn the truth before it is lost.

If you have personal matters with IM, take it to him, not on a forum.

And I don't have to look....I have never said black nails are acceptable or bragged about them.

OFRN cannot produce black nails...........red + red = red. No black comes from two OFRN bred together.
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Old 04-08-2014, 04:27 AM   #63 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Francis View Post
I think there were a couple underlying jabs at the OFRNR, and/or IM. Is the OFRNR wrong on the subject of the very strain they are preserving? Personally, I put more stock into the OFRNR, and the leading OFRN authority(IM), than ADBA when anything comes up concerning the "red" dogs we are passionate about. The ADBA has taken the low road as Goemon has stated, and that's unfortunate.
The "private club" and following comments could be taken the wrong way....maybe it's because some of us have a personal involvement in the situation. It's alright though. Colby fans are no less reactive when their dogs are discussed. It's always heated. Nothing wrong with that.

Everyone back to their corners LOL!
I know we are not the only ones who see that things are messed up in what was once a good registry for the traditional ApBT.
No dishonesty to say the green has blinded eyes.


As was shown in another post for the upcoming show, ANYONE with an OFRN dog, with at least 25% of the known old bloodlines in the dog, can register their dog for free. Money making is not the object, but the preservation of the OFRN strain is. I, personally, view it as a reformed registry, correcting the errors of the others, in regards to standard and traditional terminology.

Bottom line is this isn't about US, but our dogs, and the OFRN strain as a whole. If people aren't in the correct boat, they will end up on a deserted island in the end.

Thus endeth the sermon, grasshopper!

Oh oh, lightning is striking and the rain is pouring....lights are flickering! lol
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Old 04-08-2014, 04:33 AM   #64 (permalink)
 
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And FH, here is where I explained Dibo: https://www.gopitbull.com/working-dog...n-tramp-6.html

Since non-VIP cannot see, I will copy and paste what I typed:
FH, about Dibo... He was NOT an Old Family Red. In fact, he was not an OFRN, although he would have been considered heavy in it.
(Bruce's Jerry was the sire of Corvino's Shorty and Gimp, and HE was an original OFR)

Dibo didn't even have a red nose.

And there was never, in the [] days, any of the non-sense "color" breeding. That is show crap, which has ruined every breed of dog of their purpose.
If you want to mention Colby, he CULLED at birth any red nose pups born. (Which shows HIS dogs had some in it)
I asked Lou, before he died, if his father ever dealt with OFRN dogs. Said his father never mentioned it once during his life.
They hated the red nose dogs, as a matter of fact.

As I have heard said, "The only color that matters is winning!"

And if OFRN means No-DIBO, that means I do not have OFRN dogs, because my dogs' grandfather, Gaines' CH Red Dog(4xW), has Dibo blood, from the Carver dogs, through Hyde's Satch.

Bottom line, OFRN dogs are the preservation of the old Irish blood of the OFR's and Lightner dogs.
A red to a red will always come out red. It was the cross of the battle tested OFR's, legendary for their gameness, to black nosed dogs that the OFRN strain came about.
The strain is separate for the color...but it was never bred for color. They were valued for the gameness they had.

Robert Hemphill said the OFRN dogs were, "The gamest ever bred."


And in a link above is found an original Robert Hemphill ad.
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Old 04-08-2014, 04:58 AM   #65 (permalink)
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wow g-man, i'm still on your side, but,
dont take this the wrong way,

the bfkc, is the ONLY registry that registers 'game' dogs.

carl was born in 1942, but in 1941 his dads bulldog was on the cover of the police gazette, for winning.

now if you and iron mike can come up with that many years between you,

i might would take heed,

but now, every single 'real' dogmen think ironline is a joke,

dont believe ask around, you'll hear the truth.

and as far as their dogs, percentage wise, they aint that good,

i've witnessed, over a 1,000 events,

and NOT ONE was a pure OFRN,

and i live in nc, just above sc, so you figure there would have been ONE??????????????

ITS NOT THE DOGS, ITS THE OWNERS,

their 'dickheads' and thats a shame,

i'm not just down on that line, my favorite is redboy,

who many believe was OFRN, me included,

the owner of the BFKC, was standing next to howard when bass got the dog,

so no matter what iron mike says, it aint true,

look at 'gamblers' blood, if you know about the redboy, you would know those are the dogsd that carl [the owner of BFKC] used in his breedings,

he and katie were tight,

they were all there when termite took #4

at that time, it was THE MOST hyped event in the dog world,
at that time........
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Old 04-08-2014, 07:16 AM   #66 (permalink)
 
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Very entertaining reads. Not really sure who to believe but you guys sure do know a lot about these dogs. (*popcorn*)
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Old 04-08-2014, 09:04 AM   #67 (permalink)
 

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Looks chocolate IMO
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Old 04-08-2014, 03:44 PM   #68 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surfer View Post
wow g-man, i'm still on your side, but,
dont take this the wrong way,

the bfkc, is the ONLY registry that registers 'game' dogs.

carl was born in 1942, but in 1941 his dads bulldog was on the cover of the police gazette, for winning.

now if you and iron mike can come up with that many years between you,

i might would take heed,

but now, every single 'real' dogmen think ironline is a joke,

dont believe ask around, you'll hear the truth.

and as far as their dogs, percentage wise, they aint that good,

i've witnessed, over a 1,000 events,

and NOT ONE was a pure OFRN,

and i live in nc, just above sc, so you figure there would have been ONE??????????????

ITS NOT THE DOGS, ITS THE OWNERS,

their 'dickheads' and thats a shame,

i'm not just down on that line, my favorite is redboy,

who many believe was OFRN, me included,

the owner of the BFKC, was standing next to howard when bass got the dog,

so no matter what iron mike says, it aint true,

look at 'gamblers' blood, if you know about the redboy, you would know those are the dogsd that carl [the owner of BFKC] used in his breedings,

he and katie were tight,

they were all there when termite took #4

at that time, it was THE MOST hyped event in the dog world,
at that time........
I don't care to talk, or try to "prove" anything on a forum. As Raiderblue said, hard to know who to believe, particularly on a forum. We have all heard the saying "Proof is in the performance." I stick with my signature quote on this. Everyone believes what they want to these days, even more than back then.

But anyone familiar with the dogs knows that the Red Devil dogs were the only ones that could "go" against the Eli dogs, who were powerful barnstormers, consistently. Few others could get past the first 30 minutes. And FB and IM are close friends, so if what you said were true, FB is not a "real" dogman. That is just an example to prove the point. Which is, opinions vary, depending on the circle one is in. And you are aware of the R.O.M. dog that had the fewest breedings in history, correct? Who was it? Norrod's CH Iron Spike. Highest percentage of Champions, bred to fewest females. Six.

Now, I have never heard of a "pure" OFRN, but as you probably know, ALL modern [] dogs have OFRN blood in them, in one way or another, from one time or another. OFRN are pure, IMO, in that they are ApBT's. That's it. And NC and SC are only the East Coast. The USA is a large land.

Now, as for the BFKC, I was thinking of a completely different registry. Never dealt with it. But I disagree that it is the ONLY registry that registers game-dogs. They just advertise it. Big difference. I have nothing negative to say about Carl, though, as I do not personally know him. I stick to a small circle, and that is all.

My interest on this thread isn't about proving the past, or that one blood is better than another. Rather, I was simply trying to Keep It Simple. For the sake of newbies. When have you ever heard of "chocolate" as a color of [] dogs?

As for Redboy, I too consider him OFRN. CH Gambler was 1/2 Red Boy 1/2 Red Devil. 4XW If my memory is correct, each was under 45 minutes. He was a true finisher. There are two "strains" of Redboy dogs, IMO. The "watered" down, and the Originals (kept through selective breeding)

But, IMO, the dog game is dead today. The Old Timers are fewer and fewer in number. I have only known several real dogmen in my times, but I am sure you know I learned the real deal, as was told to me. I'm not as old as people think, which must be a reflection that I have good sources, and am not a google dogman, lol. But history is just that, HISTORY. Dead dogs can't help us today with all the problems we are having with peddling the oversized mutts, mass breeding dogs that would be culled quick in true hands, and the BYB problem, and the scapegoats that keep it going, the rescue crowd. Get rid of rescues and hold people accountable for the mutts they breed. Ban back yard breeding of unregistered dogs. Fix them or they die.

Termite? I have heard from a few that since he was a stifle dog he lacked the characteristics of a game dog. Head to head, toe to toe, and always being where the action is. But, his record cannot be disputed. I also heard he was heavy in OFRN blood.

But surfer, you know the golden proverb, from Joe Corvino himself?
The only time a dogman tells the truth is when he calls the other dogman a liar! So unless you have SEEN in action the dogs you seem to question, best to say nothing. The first step in stopping a rumor is to not repeat it. I have seen too much to believe what others say. It is one thing to trust the word of one we trust, another thing to trust what that source "heard."

IMHO, the past is gone and will not come back. Disputing over it will benefit nobody. While I may have seemed like a "dickhead" to FH, I was only attacking his "dog knowledge," not his "person." People can believe what they want. Doesn't mean I hate just because don't like a persons individual opinion on a subject matter.

But regarding IM, he has always kept his word (which fewer and fewer do today)and showed me pictures that can counter any cyber rumor and opinion. When I talk to him he never cuts another down, nor discredits others, UNLESS somebody attacks him. How many of you would not be pissed off if people were discrediting your names over the web? If people want to know about him, best way to find out is to give him a call...his number is open for anyone. I'm pretty sure the guns would be blazing if rumors and lies were spread about any of you.. Food for thought.

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Last edited by Goemon; 04-08-2014 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:10 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Personal issues ?? Come ON! again. Re read the post and don't take me out of context. Its very clear who has personal issues. Look at the personal attacks in every thread where (a group of you OFRNR folks) sing the same song get just as ungly and shotty when people don't drink your drink. I normally and very humble about it chop it up to how ya'll roll. Yes there is a group of you who all sing the same song and get band for taking things outta hand. Seen it time an again. Not taking anything from you, IM or your dogs. Just tellin you flat out how you like to tell folks. Ignore most of the props given if we don't agree with every word. Yes... it is a pattern. Thanks Surfer for clearing him up on the BFKC and as far as the ADBA, they do have some color schemes I dont agree with and have made that clear on other convos about color and the adba.

The only thing that seperates IS color thus the RED NOSE that states COLOR and Yes, Im very up to date on Colby and his red nosed dogs that quit being produced by the mid 30s or so along with the black and tan coloration. BECAUSE they are LINKED its GENETIC coloring the color of the skin and the color of the hair. TO say or believe otherwise is just dumbing yourself down.

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [376] :: TUDOR'S JEFF

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [715] :: <B>NORROD'S IRON SPIKE

Yes DIBO is was an Old Family dog .. red with a black nose. Thats a red. Not RED nosed but red none the less. .... Theres IS alot of SIMILARITY in the history of these two dogs.

in the 7 there is ALOT Of COLBY ... So those inbred offspring of Dibo and jeff that had red noses aren't OFRN ??? Cause they are SURE Ol Family. They come in Black, Brindle, White, and solid red... all with the same pedigrees. Its not until someone took ONE dog and stacked on its color mutations and kept with it that colors genetic herritage traits (within itself)

So .. beggin the question .. is it based on color or not? ROFL (rhetorical)

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [35828] :: TUDOR'S WHITE ROCK



ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [9] :: TUDOR'S DIBO (3XW)


here is your smut .. buckskin red on buckskin yellow off one of my favorite dogs.. that I've only read and heard about of course.
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com...&dog_id=224289

I didnt say black nails.. I said appear black...... you can't have black hair or black nails if the nose is red. GENETICALLY you can have the darkest form of red which the nails will appear black unless in the light.

I agree with your point the only thing we're arguing over really is "Silver Red" being a foo foo name. MAN COME ON! THE APBT IS AMERICAS first FOO FOO PET. you know that. I wasn't making a person poke when I said that, it was just generalization. Just for clarity. My perspestive with DNA and genetics is mathimatical. It was more philosphical like most dog men then while a bio major I hit a AHA moment studying DNA and mitachondria. I LOVE MATH when it has to do WITH DNA and CODING there is always variables some un accounted for, but there are always constants and a base. Its really intriguing to me to reserect dead dogs the natural way through great breeding and function. While we can say dogs dog always breed true... THEY DO.. we just need to pull in the math of it. TODAY we KNOW a good deal bout genetics and our hands in mutation and preservation of.
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:25 PM   #70 (permalink)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goemon View Post
That is dark red. Chocolate is a novice term. No ApBT's in history were called chocolate.

Just shows the newbies that call them chocolate are just that...newbies.

For verification go to the Old Family Red Nose Registry:

http://ofrnr.com/Forms_OFRNR.html
Sure, you could say "dark red" but in today's terms that pup would most likely be called chocolate...
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:29 PM   #71 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alapaha_Bully View Post
Wtf? I've only been dealing with dogs for 20 years, so maybe
I'm a neophyte lmao...what color would you say? It's kinda hard to tell from a picture that I'm looking at on my cell phone though.
Did you not read the other posts? Were you speaking of the dog I showed?

She is dark red brindle, not chocolate. Chocolate is not an OFRN color. Red is red, in any variation of it. I even posted a pic in the sun. Clearly it is red.

20 years? lets see, you started in the 90's, AFTER the terrible 80's that saw the breed start its downhill slide, to where we are today...

Go to the root of your learning about these dogs, and find where, when and who started adding all these colors.
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:30 PM   #72 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alapaha_Bully View Post
Sure, you could say "dark red" but in today's terms that pup would most likely be called chocolate...
Chocolate will never be an accepted color in this registry, which stays with the roots and traditional standards.

If people follow the new road, the breed will be extinct in the next 50 years.
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:37 PM   #73 (permalink)
 

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Originally Posted by Goemon View Post
Did you not read the other posts? Were you speaking of the dog I showed?

She is dark red brindle, not chocolate. Chocolate is not an OFRN color. Red is red, in any variation of it. I even posted a pic in the sun. Clearly it is red.

20 years? lets see, you started in the 90's, AFTER the terrible 80's that saw the breed start its downhill slide, to where we are today...

Go to the root of your learning about these dogs, and find where, when and who started adding all these colors.
I was referring to the dog that was in OP's initial photos. And dude, I said I've been dealing DOGS for 20 years, not necessarily just pits....I'm no dog lady, not here to debate my education with yours...i owned a few pits in my day, done lots of research, and just have a genuine love for the breed. So kick rocks!
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:47 PM   #74 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Alapaha_Bully View Post
I was referring to the dog that was in OP's initial photos. And dude, I said I've been dealing DOGS for 20 years, not necessarily just pits....I'm no dog lady, not here to debate my education with yours...i owned a few pits in my day, done lots of research, and just have a genuine love for the breed. So kick rocks!
Ok. I knew you must not have been into ApBT's for 20 years since "pits" was a name coined by the ghetto thugs that ruined the breed.

Hence, why I said "neophyte." Ticks me off that flakes that don't know how to change diapers give a generic name to a breed and society uses it as if it were okay....
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Old 04-08-2014, 06:00 PM   #75 (permalink)
 

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Originally Posted by Goemon View Post
Ok. I knew you must not have been into ApBT's for 20 years since "pits" was a name coined by the ghetto thugs that ruined the breed.

Hence, why I said "neophyte." Ticks me off that flakes that don't know how to change diapers give a generic name to a breed and society uses it as if it were okay....
Smh...you obviously have NO life... it's just a shorter, quicker to type name for me...besides I'm more into behavior, training, and psychological aspect of the APBT, the petty arguments that you're involved in about color, name terms, registry doesn't really intrigue me.
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