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Old 08-05-2014, 09:43 AM   #16 (permalink)
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i've been in contact with these animals for almost 35yrs,

and i've came across some that are[were] HA,

but those are not for 'petbull' owners.

i have a couple now that will kill you and then eat you.

but they are not allowed to be in contact with the public,
but i can put a biscuit in my mouth, and they will very carefully will take it.

and one will break it in half, while still in my mouth, then come back and get the other half.

i think the reason they are so aggressive is, they just do not want anyone
near me.........

if they can see me they are fine, once
i'm out of their eyesight,

get away from them, they CHANGE..................
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Old 08-10-2014, 03:26 PM   #17 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ames View Post
Biting a human does not make a dog human aggressive. You have kids obviously not an ideal situation for a fearful or human aggressive )if that's what it is) dog and I don't agree with rehoming dogs who have issues. One bite should have been enough warning for it to never happen again. Some people aren't equipped to handle problem dogs, that's ok they aren't for everyone. I just don't like when people start claiming a dog is human aggressive without seeing the dog or being in the situation. Very very few dogs are actually human aggressive. There is typically an underlying issue causing the reaction.

It's not legal to shoot dogs in my state. There are other ways to handle it, so check your states laws.


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Old 08-20-2014, 05:00 AM   #18 (permalink)
 
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All I can say is: sorry for your loss, and thank you for choosing the needle over the bullet. Sorry, again
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Old 05-10-2015, 09:39 PM   #19 (permalink)
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My Dog Bit a neighbor's child.

Pit bull attacks are all too common unfortunately. The history says they were bred against human aggression. But aggression is aggression.

How do you expect a dog to discern from a child and another dog. The pit was bred to be loyal to its master not necessarily third parties of varying sizes. Pits should always be under control for worse case scenarios.

Contingency plans should something happen. Break sticks and so on. Nanny dog is the biggest rubbish ever created.

Also immediate destruction and always blaming genetics is a also a fault of pit bull owners. Nurture and management is also vitally important.

The human race breeds a naturally aggressive dog, and then the only option is putting it down. 3 strikes is a bit much. But sometimes no attempt to rehabilitate, or try to manage it better so it's not around potential targets saddens me.

You chose to buy a naturally volatile breed. Yet give up on it when human breeding practises cause it to faulter. That and the combination of bad management and training.

If pitbull owners were as cotienscous as many gsd owners the breed could exist harmoniously in society, under the correct capable hands. The problem is the nanny dog image and false advertising to combat the bans and bsl. Which I am completely against for the record. I'm pro education, and more responsible owners knowing and respecting the power of the breed.

The problem starts with misinformation and a natural perception that the dog is aggressive so it's normal. The fact is it had a predisposition for aggression. It is not necessarily born to do these things.

Raise any species in a completely dark room and it will be blind permanently, irrelevant that it was genetically engineered to see. Get the point?

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Old 05-10-2015, 09:50 PM   #20 (permalink)
 
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Sorry to hear that man.

I recommend you to sacrifice your dog. HA must not be tolerated.

Btw, probably his parents will lawsuit you. be prepared.

Best Regards,

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaceaa View Post
I am freaking out. My dog has bit my neighbor's child. A 14 yob wanted to play with my dog and give him cookies. So I went and got him put him on the leash, and was walking with him we were a couple of blocks away when I looked away for a second to speak to someone while still holding the leash. The kid was still pulling cookies from his pocket, and for some reason with out provocation my dog circled him for the cookies jumped and bit his face and then his leg. He has gone to the ER to get stitches. The dog will probably be held for 10 days, but I don't know if I should destroy him or return him to the breeder. He is 2 years old. My girlfriend reported a bite on the dog on my 5 year old, and he was held for 10 days, and I brought him home because I never believed it was a bite based on the look of the mark on her arm it was a scratch. However he did bite someone at a show. I brought him to the weight pull track and did poorly because we were inexperienced, and a gentlemen wanted to help me, but as the dog was nervous around the weight pull cart and was being handled by someone he wasn't familiar with he turned and bit him. The guy let it go, but I was told I needed to watch him from now on. I have been watching him, and as he seemed fine with receiving the treats from the kid I believed walking together would have been fine, but now I am a bite statistic, and I could be eligible for a lawsuit on top of the medical treatment expenses.
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Old 05-10-2015, 10:17 PM   #21 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WesS View Post
Pit bull attacks are all too common unfortunately. The history says they were bred against human aggression. But aggression is aggression.

How do you expect a dog to discern from a child and another dog. The pit was bred to be loyal to its master not necessarily third parties of varying sizes. Pits should always be under control for worse case scenarios.

Contingency plans should something happen. Break sticks and so on. Nanny dog is the biggest rubbish ever created.

Also immediate destruction and always blaming genetics is a also a fault of pit bull owners. Nurture and management is also vitally important.

The human race breeds a naturally aggressive dog, and then the only option is putting it down. 3 strikes is a bit much. But sometimes no attempt to rehabilitate, or try to manage it better so it's not around potential targets saddens me.

You chose to buy a naturally volatile breed. Yet give up on it when human breeding practises cause it to faulter. That and the combination of bad management and training.

If pitbull owners were as cotienscous as many gsd owners the breed could exist harmoniously in society, under the correct capable hands. The problem is the nanny dog image and false advertising to combat the bans and bsl. Which I am completely against for the record. I'm pro education, and more responsible owners knowing and respecting the power of the breed.

The problem starts with misinformation and a natural perception that the dog is aggressive so it's normal. The fact is it had a predisposition for aggression. It is not necessarily born to do these things.

Raise any species in a completely dark room and it will be blind permanently, irrelevant that it was genetically engineered to see. Get the point?
Human and dog aggression are completely separate. It is absolutely possible for a dog to know the difference between a child and another dog. Stable APBTs, even those that are extremely DA, should never show aggression to a human, especially a child, and the vast majority do not.
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Old 05-10-2015, 10:36 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Human and dog aggression are completely separate. It is absolutely possible for a dog to know the difference between a child and another dog. Stable APBTs, even those that are extremely DA, should never show aggression to a human, especially a child, and the vast majority do not.
That is why pitbull's eclipse all other breeds in human mauling cases, causing grievious bodily harm? Or Deaths?
The ratio between GSD's (My choice of dogs) and Pitbulls, is 10 - 1, in such cases, if not more. The GSD is also not the 'most innocent'. So makes you think.
The reasons why? Many.. Breeding for Gameness, again agression is agression. Dog on dog agression, Dog on Cat agression, Dog on Bull agresssion? Dog on Bear agression? Pits were used for all these things. The idea that human agression is completely bred out is speculative at best. Even badly managed GSD's can be agressive to strangers, inspite of being bred against it. The point is a pit is more likely to show such agression. A pit is more likely to cause more serious damage, with its bite and hold style. The pitt is a mauler, no way around that.

The other problem, is there is hardly a coherent Pit breeding standard. Historically they had to be fighting dogs. An inhumane trait. Banned, and rightfully so. AKC has no breed standard. UKC sort of has one. Many countries around the world dont have. Many nations have the pitbull banned. So it creates backyard breeders, who have no clue in what they are doing.

So how can the pit possibly be standardised? Some people call the Pitbull as clump of dogs, instead of rightfully using the name to refer to the Am Pitbull (Only called american because it was first registered there, not because it originated there.).

So between speculative standardisation, breed standards. Confused breeders, with oversived pits, with strange mixes calling them pits. Its a complete mess.
Ill bet you would have a hard time exactly defining what an Am Pit really is. People from all over will disagree. So their is also the issue of breeding weaker nerved dogs.

The apathy of the 'more educated pitbull owners', the guys who respect the power and history of the breed, is like the olden days is to shoot, or euthanise by needle the dog. So that their image is not tarnished, in their self taught lies.

The facts are the facts, at the end of the day you can not argue with acturial evidence. Blatant statistics. When statistics are concerned the temperment is less important as everything else.

Sure their is the issue that a 'fighting dog' with never say die, and gameness, will always atract thug owners. Thats part in parcel of the problem. But like I said. Its not just sketchy breeding and genetics. Its who the dog attracts into ownership. I can perfectly see how one would be attracted to the power of the pit. The genetic variability, which often makes them healthier dogs, stronger dogs. The admiration for the perfect specimen. But people seem more concerned with bastardising it, and bluring the lines between pitts and bully breeds.

Its a mess. So to act like their is no predisposition to human agression, is a blatant lie. And holds no water. People need to realise that a dog that was bred to be agressive towards anything. A dog that was bred, to hold and fight until death. A dog that was bred for gameness will always be powerfull. It was always be volatile.

Now a pitbull is no lion. It can be managed. But it needs more educated owners. It needs owners that can control their dogs. It need's owners that put time into training their dogs. It needs owners who manage their dogs correctly.

I came here to have a look into the pitbull world. I always admired the breed, although it was never my cup of tea. Yet I find this forum, litered with serious attacks, to dogs and humans. I mean this post immidiately popped up. Spending time on other forums. And GSD focused forums, you dont often see these types of posts.. Why do you think that is?

Last edited by WesS; 05-10-2015 at 10:40 PM.
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Old 05-10-2015, 11:32 PM   #23 (permalink)
 
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To be or not to be. Shakespeare or not, GSD or NOT, Cow or Dog. Any animal who attack a human being without a reason, specially a child, must be sacrificed.

We can discuss the angels gender during weeks, but the bottom line is.: if my dog attack a child, I will pull my gun and shoot on him, 21 coppers FMJ.

Just like that.



Quote:
Originally Posted by WesS View Post
That is why pitbull's eclipse all other breeds in human mauling cases, causing grievious bodily harm? Or Deaths?
The ratio between GSD's (My choice of dogs) and Pitbulls, is 10 - 1, in such cases, if not more. The GSD is also not the 'most innocent'. So makes you think.
The reasons why? Many.. Breeding for Gameness, again agression is agression. Dog on dog agression, Dog on Cat agression, Dog on Bull agresssion? Dog on Bear agression? Pits were used for all these things. The idea that human agression is completely bred out is speculative at best. Even badly managed GSD's can be agressive to strangers, inspite of being bred against it. The point is a pit is more likely to show such agression. A pit is more likely to cause more serious damage, with its bite and hold style. The pitt is a mauler, no way around that.

The other problem, is there is hardly a coherent Pit breeding standard. Historically they had to be fighting dogs. An inhumane trait. Banned, and rightfully so. AKC has no breed standard. UKC sort of has one. Many countries around the world dont have. Many nations have the pitbull banned. So it creates backyard breeders, who have no clue in what they are doing.

So how can the pit possibly be standardised? Some people call the Pitbull as clump of dogs, instead of rightfully using the name to refer to the Am Pitbull (Only called american because it was first registered there, not because it originated there.).

So between speculative standardisation, breed standards. Confused breeders, with oversived pits, with strange mixes calling them pits. Its a complete mess.
Ill bet you would have a hard time exactly defining what an Am Pit really is. People from all over will disagree. So their is also the issue of breeding weaker nerved dogs.

The apathy of the 'more educated pitbull owners', the guys who respect the power and history of the breed, is like the olden days is to shoot, or euthanise by needle the dog. So that their image is not tarnished, in their self taught lies.

The facts are the facts, at the end of the day you can not argue with acturial evidence. Blatant statistics. When statistics are concerned the temperment is less important as everything else.

Sure their is the issue that a 'fighting dog' with never say die, and gameness, will always atract thug owners. Thats part in parcel of the problem. But like I said. Its not just sketchy breeding and genetics. Its who the dog attracts into ownership. I can perfectly see how one would be attracted to the power of the pit. The genetic variability, which often makes them healthier dogs, stronger dogs. The admiration for the perfect specimen. But people seem more concerned with bastardising it, and bluring the lines between pitts and bully breeds.

Its a mess. So to act like their is no predisposition to human agression, is a blatant lie. And holds no water. People need to realise that a dog that was bred to be agressive towards anything. A dog that was bred, to hold and fight until death. A dog that was bred for gameness will always be powerfull. It was always be volatile.

Now a pitbull is no lion. It can be managed. But it needs more educated owners. It needs owners that can control their dogs. It need's owners that put time into training their dogs. It needs owners who manage their dogs correctly.

I came here to have a look into the pitbull world. I always admired the breed, although it was never my cup of tea. Yet I find this forum, litered with serious attacks, to dogs and humans. I mean this post immidiately popped up. Spending time on other forums. And GSD focused forums, you dont often see these types of posts.. Why do you think that is?
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Old 05-11-2015, 12:43 AM   #24 (permalink)
 
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Old 05-11-2015, 12:44 AM   #25 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WesS View Post
That is why pitbull's eclipse all other breeds in human mauling cases, causing grievious bodily harm? Or Deaths?
Not APBTs, "Pit Bulls" in the generic term that the media uses, which actually covers over 20 breeds. I'm sure if you lumped together 20 other breeds' statistics, they'd look pretty serious too.
The ratio between GSD's (My choice of dogs) and Pitbulls, is 10 - 1, in such cases, if not more. The GSD is also not the 'most innocent'. So makes you think.
The reasons why? Many.. Breeding for Gameness, again agression is agression. Dog on dog agression, Dog on Cat agression, Dog on Bull agresssion? Dog on Bear agression? Pits were used for all these things.
Yes, but their original purpose was dog fighting, and no one wants to get in between two fighting dogs if that dog's likely to redirect onto the handler. Thus the APBT was created to be dog aggressive, but not human aggressive.
The idea that human agression is completely bred out is speculative at best. True, there will always be manbiters, that can be said of any breed. No one's claiming that Pit Bulls are NEVER human aggressive. We just stated above we would put a dog down if that were the case.
Even badly managed GSD's can be agressive to strangers, inspite of being bred against it. The point is a pit is more likely to show such agression. A pit is more likely to cause more serious damage, with its bite and hold style. The pitt is a mauler, no way around that.
I don't agree that Pit Bulls are "maulers", but whatever, that's an opinion.

The other problem, is there is hardly a coherent Pit breeding standard. Wrong. There is a very clear breed standard and has been for over a hundred years. The ADBA is the main registry for APBTs, check it out if you haven't heard of it.
Historically they had to be fighting dogs. An inhumane trait. Banned, and rightfully so.
Again, your opinion.
AKC has no breed standard.
Thank god, they've ruined enough breeds.
UKC sort of has one. Many countries around the world dont have. Many nations have the pitbull banned. So it creates backyard breeders, who have no clue in what they are doing.
There are backyard breeders of every breed.

So how can the pit possibly be standardised? Some people call the Pitbull as clump of dogs, instead of rightfully using the name to refer to the Am Pitbull (Only called american because it was first registered there, not because it originated there.).
I'm very aware of that. That's also one of the reasons those statistics you talk about so much are completely skewed.

So between speculative standardisation, breed standards. Confused breeders, with oversived pits, with strange mixes calling them pits. Its a complete mess.The bully mutt world is a mess, the APBT world isn't. There are plenty of ethical APBT breeders, handlers, and fanciers out there who remain separate from the rest of the bullshit.
Ill bet you would have a hard time exactly defining what an Am Pit really is. Not at all.
People from all over will disagree. So their is also the issue of breeding weaker nerved dogs.

The apathy of the 'more educated pitbull owners', the guys who respect the power and history of the breed, is like the olden days is to shoot, or euthanise by needle the dog. So that their image is not tarnished, in their self taught lies.Wrong again. It has nothing to do with their image, it's about preventing an animal from harming someone.

The facts are the facts, at the end of the day you can not argue with acturial evidence. Blatant statistics. When statistics are concerned the temperment is less important as everything else.
Your "facts" are just opinions.

Sure their is the issue that a 'fighting dog' with never say die, and gameness, will always atract thug owners. Thats part in parcel of the problem. But like I said. Its not just sketchy breeding and genetics. Its who the dog attracts into ownership. I can perfectly see how one would be attracted to the power of the pit. The genetic variability, which often makes them healthier dogs, stronger dogs. The admiration for the perfect specimen. But people seem more concerned with bastardising it, and bluring the lines between pitts and bully breeds.
Uneducated folks do, but those who actually care about the breed do the opposite. They keep the breed alive and well.

Its a mess. So to act like their is no predisposition to human agression, is a blatant lie. And holds no water. People need to realise that a dog that was bred to be agressive towards anything.
But it wasn't. It was specifically bred not to be aggressive towards humans.
A dog that was bred, to hold and fight until death. A dog that was bred for gameness will always be powerfull. It was always be volatile.

Now a pitbull is no lion. It can be managed. But it needs more educated owners. It needs owners that can control their dogs. It need's owners that put time into training their dogs. It needs owners who manage their dogs correctly.
Couldn't agree more.

I came here to have a look into the pitbull world. I always admired the breed, although it was never my cup of tea. Yet I find this forum, litered with serious attacks, to dogs and humans. I mean this post immidiately popped up. Spending time on other forums. And GSD focused forums, you dont often see these types of posts.. Why do you think that is?
You must be looking for some pretty specific threads if you're finding it "littered" with attacks here. This thread is a year old and it immediately pops up? Let's stop pretending that you don't have your own agenda, here, alright?
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Old 05-11-2015, 01:21 AM   #26 (permalink)
 
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Why are you responding to a year-old post, WesS? It bears a marked resemblance to trolling.
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Old 05-11-2015, 04:46 AM   #27 (permalink)
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I don't know what GSD board you're on that doesn't have posts like this, I'm on a fairly popular one that has a whole subforum dedicated to aggression. I love GSDs and have one myself, but they are one of the top 3 dogs people name as the most aggressive breeds. And as far as most people are concerned (not saying they're right) there are FAR more pit bull type dogs in the US than GSDs and that's saying something, considering how overbred shepherds are. Just something to consider. You're not doing the GSD any favors by saying "but look how much worse pit bulls are!" GSD and pit bull owners should try to work together, our breeds are facing a lot of the same stigmas and issues with BSL

Edit: I just checked, thought the name was familiar we are on the same board. Just looking through the aggression topics there is a new one almost daily.
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Old 05-11-2015, 07:59 AM   #28 (permalink)
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I don't know what GSD board you're on that doesn't have posts like this, I'm on a fairly popular one that has a whole subforum dedicated to aggression. I love GSDs and have one myself, but they are one of the top 3 dogs people name as the most aggressive breeds. And as far as most people are concerned (not saying they're right) there are FAR more pit bull type dogs in the US than GSDs and that's saying something, considering how overbred shepherds are. Just something to consider. You're not doing the GSD any favors by saying "but look how much worse pit bulls are!" GSD and pit bull owners should try to work together, our breeds are facing a lot of the same stigmas and issues with BSL

Edit: I just checked, thought the name was familiar we are on the same board. Just looking through the aggression topics there is a new one almost daily.

The difference is with Pits it is more often for the bite to happen rather than some sort of aggression to be recognised. Gsds may bite but not as common. Also bite the kids face then calf? Again Pitt attacks are of a different intensity. The mechanism of attack is completely different.

Most of the gsd posts are warning signs and certain trouble rather than actual attacks. Also it's a much bigger board with many many more members. There is a subsection for agression. That's a good thing. Pitbulls should have one too? Why call it just pitbull behaviour. This is called ownership and bring practical. That's the difference in many education levels associated with the gsd community in bigger scope. They are extremely careful in the management of their dogs.

If all pitbull owner and gsd owners had to switch dogs. Gsd attacks would go up. And pitbull attacks would go down. I can almost guarantee that.

Also what many pit owners consider normal everyday life. Is often worthy of debate in the agression gsd board. Pitbull owners do nothing until it's too late time and time again.

What is your test for testing nerve in breeding? Or do you just assume that powerfull breed can show self restraint? You do nothing to produce stable dogs. Yet advertise them as nanny dogs.

Last edited by WesS; 05-11-2015 at 08:58 AM.
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Old 05-11-2015, 08:17 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BCdogs View Post
My answers in red.

My facts are not opinions, they are real statistics. And real people who were maimed or lost their lives.

That said my 'motives' are not sinister. As I said I don't believe in bsl of any type. Only education. But the sooner you realise there is a predisposition to human aggression the sooner I can go and push against the bsl nutters hard. You can't educate anybody if the people educating are refusing to accept the statistics. I am here to learn more too. But no amount of knowledge on pit bulls and what the temperament is meant to be, can excuse the raw actuarial statistical data. Also lack of good temperment testing in the breeding stock like a shutzhund alternative is concerning for such a powerful breed. You say it is not bred for human agression, based on historical perspective. But nothing is being done now to weed out the week nerves dogs and stop them breeding. Other than the bullet that usually comes after the fact.

With regards to my 10 to 1 ratio. Vs gsd. I discounted the number for population dog ratio. The figure is much larger without doing that.

The gsd is not a nanny dog. It's a large dog. With power. Neither is the pitbull. That lie is so bewilderingly dangerous.

My motives are to blame the humans and protect the dogs. Those are my motives. Don't ban. Don't create backyard, illegal breeders, facilititate professionals to do proper breeding of dogs with proper nerve. Fix the mess humans created. Educate. Create an active forum to not deny the statistics. But to actively drop them, through better breeding, better management, and better legislation that does not harass pitbull owners and ethical breeders. Possible prison sentence for negligence with a powerful breed (all breeds included) leading to maiming or death as they have done in UK

Last edited by WesS; 05-11-2015 at 08:37 AM.
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Old 05-11-2015, 09:24 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WesS View Post
The difference is with Pits it is more often for the bite to happen rather than some sort of aggression to be recognised. Gsds may bite but not as common. Also bite the kids face then calf? Again Pitt attacks are of a different intensity. The mechanism of attack is completely different.

Most of the gsd posts are warning signs and certain trouble rather than actual attacks. Also it's a much bigger board with many many more members. There is a subsection for agression. That's a good thing. Pitbulls should have one too? Why call it just pitbull behaviour. This is called ownership and bring practical. That's the difference in many education levels associated with the gsd community in bigger scope. They are extremely careful in the management of their dogs.

If all pitbull owner and gsd owners had to switch dogs. Gsd attacks would go up. And pitbull attacks would go down. I can almost guarantee that.

Also what many pit owners consider normal everyday life. Is often worthy of debate in the agression gsd board. Pitbull owners do nothing until it's too late time and time again.

What is your test for testing nerve in breeding? Or do you just assume that powerfull breed can show self restraint? You do nothing to produce stable dogs. Yet advertise them as nanny dogs.
Well they are a different type of dog so a different attack style is not surprising. They have bite, hold and shake style similar to terriers. I think a subsection for aggression here is actually not a bad idea, but "behavior" covers that as well as other things, I don't think it's an effort on the website's part to sugar coat the pit bull's image. And maybe this is a misinterpretation on my part but "This is called ownership and bring practical. That's the difference in many education levels associated with the gsd community in bigger scope. They are extremely careful in the management of their dogs." <---- This feels a little offensive. Are you saying pit bull owners are less educated? That pit bull owners are less careful in their management? I take offense to that and I assume a lot of people here will as well. Not EVERYONE with a GSD is a super smart, responsible dog owner and not EVERY pit bull owner is not. I think you don't like pits and have some prejudices about the people who own them, I see a lot of pit owners who post topics asking about warning signs on this board and others.

I'm not a breeder? I don't test nerve? I have 3 dogs and I just try to observe as carefully as I can and ask a lot of questions. How do you know every pit bull breeders practices? That must have taken a lot of time to find and observe them all. Not to mention every pit bull owner and how they treat their dogs including some well respected members on the GSD board. Not sure when I ever called pits Nanny dogs but if you say it, then it must be so because you know all about it.
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