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Old 05-31-2010, 03:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Ugh, I want to pull my hair out...

Okay, I know I'm a newb to the working aspect of dogs, but when I show interest in ANYTHING in life, i do my best to find out EVERYTHING about it. Schutzhund has proven no different... I got the bug out in NM while watching lisas dogs, I spent time here and other places reading... I feel as though I've made the right "connections" here for many of the trials and tribulations that come with training (lisa, wayne, deb, howard)... I cannot thank lisa and wayne enough for their guidance and advice. As well as getting involved in a local club.

I guess where the hair pulling out comes is... 6 months ago my cousin Stephanie got her first "pit bull" puppy off of craigslist. She originally wanted one of my dogs, but she didn't fit the bill for my requirements of an owner for one of my dogs. This is the lady who drove with doug and I to NM, and made fun of me for showing interest in Agility, which doesn't really bug me a whole heck of a lot because no one in my family has the same passion as I do.

Well, she rushed up to me yesterday at my family get together for memorial day and was actually excited that I am persuing Sch. She wants to train with me, she says her puppy is ready. She says the puppy is already getting the "attack on command" down. Knowing she's either:
1) full of crap or
2) persuing something that she has no/little knowledge of just like when she wanted to get a "pit bull" (she still doesn't understand that my dogs are not pit bulls).

I asked her if she's started tracking yet, and she says "yes, she's doing great with it". So I told her to bring her pup on out to the house and we can learn/work on the foundation of the sport together. I informed her I personally wasn't ready to persue bite work yet.

IDK ya'll WTHeck do I do? I really hope she is full of crap, and isn't really in the process of royally screwing up this pup.
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Old 05-31-2010, 03:20 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Have her come out and check out her tracking. Tracking is hard some dogs just don't get it right away. I have been working with V and she will still go cold sometimes.

I guess for the sake of the pup I would try to help her out I would hate to know that I could have done something to keep the pup from being part of the bad press. If she is that kind of owner.



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Old 05-31-2010, 03:25 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Have her come out and check out her tracking. Tracking is hard some dogs just don't get it right away. I have been working with V and she will still go cold sometimes.

I guess for the sake of the pup I would try to help her out I would hate to know that I could have done something to keep the pup from being part of the bad press. If she is that kind of owner.

Absolutely, you've confirmed that I'm doing the right thing. Thanks Sharon. This is not a sport to do half-butt you know? I don't think she'd intensionally be "that kind of owner", but with her lack of knowledge and inexperience the odds are, and accident will happen.
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Old 05-31-2010, 03:27 PM   #4 (permalink)
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i have seen a lot of people wash a dog out because there trying to do something they don't even grasp themselves. If i were you i would do what your trainer suggest, if your not quite sure your doing something right, get some advice from someone that has been there and done that. its a lot easier to take it slow and do it right the first time than to teach a dog @$$ backwards and have to re train it.

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Old 05-31-2010, 03:31 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I know I would love to really get into this sport but since I have to drive 5hr one way I guess I wont be doing it. I am doing tracking tho and I love it.



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Old 05-31-2010, 03:36 PM   #6 (permalink)
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i have seen a lot of people wash a dog out because there trying to do something they don't even grasp themselves. If i were you i would do what your trainer suggest, if your not quite sure your doing something right, get some advice from someone that has been there and done that. its a lot easier to take it slow and do it right the first time than to teach a dog @$$ backwards and have to re train it.
No, kidding wayne! Cree and Melony are loving the box tracking lmao, i reckon in a week or so we'll progress from there. Remember me tellin' ya I cleared behind my fence line? Well, I take them back there at night, and shine a spot light so shadows are casted from the un even dirt around the boxes. I know those little buzzards can't see the food on the ground nor an outline because I don't mark it with flags or anything. The first night Cree went out of the box 3 times on the first box, but by the second box he had the hang of it. Melony, did about the same, except I had to remind her where the box was one time on the second box.


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I know I would love to really get into this sport but since I have to drive 5hr one way I guess I wont be doing it. I am doing tracking tho and I love it.
Yeah, that would definitely put it on hold for me too lol.
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Old 05-31-2010, 08:48 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
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It's hard trying to balance the welfare of an animal with the feelings of a friend or relative. I guess the best you can do is try to help her learn, and hope for the best.
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Old 06-01-2010, 02:31 AM   #8 (permalink)
 
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good grief Shana!! I'm sorry but your cousin or what ever she is, is a moron but talked about that already I just hope she does not screw that puppy up and make it aggressive. She has no dog sense at all and now she wants to do SCH? Just try to help steer her in the right path and make her go to training with you. Many times that is enough to scare people off the idea because they do not understand how much work is involved.
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Old 06-01-2010, 03:42 PM   #9 (permalink)
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good grief Shana!! I'm sorry but your cousin or what ever she is, is a moron but talked about that already I just hope she does not screw that puppy up and make it aggressive. She has no dog sense at all and now she wants to do SCH? Just try to help steer her in the right path and make her go to training with you. Many times that is enough to scare people off the idea because they do not understand how much work is involved.
lmao I couldn't agree with that second sentence anymore! I figured you'd appreciate my hair pulling more than anyone sense you've met her! I honestly don't want to bring her to Sch with me... she'll embarass me like she did at your place! I wish I could duct tape her mouth shut and glue clothes on her body so I could take her out in public so she could really see that it's waaaay more than "attaaaack!"
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Old 06-02-2010, 03:23 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I would not worry about your cousin. No matter what you say, she is going to do what she is going to do. I highly doubt that she has done anything with her dog. I can not tell you how many times people come out to my field and tell me they work their dogs in schutzhund, and they don't. The dog won't heel, can't track and it's bite,can not bust a grape. I have almost quit helping people for that reason.

I am sure your cousin is just jealous of you working your dog, and is making things up. Just do your thing. Get correct foundation work in, and make sure when you get into the bitework, you get a good helper who will develop a correct grip, and know how to work a dog in the correct drives.

Most people do wash themselves out. Remember it takes about 3-4 years of training to title the average dog to a schutzhund 3 level. I have seen lots of APBTs that excell in the grip work, and has good obedience, but can't do the tracking. Remember just because a dog bites an armsleeve and can do long bites, does not mean it is a schutzhund dog. It takes all 3 phases, and putting them together, and passing all in one day, are not as easy as people think.
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:52 PM   #11 (permalink)
 
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I have seen lots of APBTs that excell in the grip work, and has good obedience, but can't do the tracking. Remember just because a dog bites an armsleeve and can do long bites, does not mean it is a schutzhund dog. It takes all 3 phases, and putting them together, and passing all in one day, are not as easy as people think.
AMEN! we get ppl out the the club all the time who want to do sch with their dogs but as soon as they have been there for a few months and see how much work is involved we never see them again. All three parts are very important and really IMO tracking is the easy part. At our club if you are not working on a title and doing all three parts you cannot do bite work or become a member. We will not have ppl go out and just work on bite work it is too dangerous we are not a protection club we are a sports club.

I also agree with a good helper and trainer they can make or break a dog! That is why I do not attend the club down the street from me, they are scared of APBT's and I do not agree with they way they train or the quality of the helpers.

a side note.... to see table training done that bad is really scary! I think table training if done the right way can have good results but when you base it all out of fear..... sheesh!
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Old 06-04-2010, 02:29 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Hi Lisa,
You mentioned in the above post that you think tracking is the easy part. Did you happen to earn a TD(AKC Tracking Dog title) when you were handling and finishing all thos AKC dogs. Is that why you think it's the easy part?

Also, who's table training did you think was awful? Table training is easier for the helper when teaching a dog to bark, and can help target better. It also frustrates the dog and can be used to build drive. A trainer that uses it on a defensive dog that won't bite in prey, that is a whole other story.
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Old 06-04-2010, 02:46 AM   #13 (permalink)
 
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Hi Lisa,
You mentioned in the above post that you think tracking is the easy part. Did you happen to earn a TD(AKC Tracking Dog title) when you were handling and finishing all thos AKC dogs. Is that why you think it's the easy part?

Also, who's table training did you think was awful? Table training is easier for the helper when teaching a dog to bark, and can help target better. It also frustrates the dog and can be used to build drive. A trainer that uses it on a defensive dog that won't bite in prey, that is a whole other story.
I love tracking (while at first I thought is was boring) and I find that the easy part but that could be different for every person. My personal take is tracking is the easier part of Sch you may have a different opinion. I track in the morning and at night and for me it is peaceful and granted I have only done the work for up to a Sch 2 I still think, for me, it is easy.

Now if your talking an FH 1,2, &3 that is hard to train for and I don't know if I would even go for those titles. That is a little more that I think I can do at this point and not something I am interested in. I give major kudos to those that have an FH 1,2 or 3. man that is a lot of work.

no I have never done AKC tracking no interest in it I only did conformation with several breeds and Obed on a Border Terrier. I think the AKC agility program is a joke and won't waste my time and money.

The table training done here is horrible I know what table training is about and have seen it done right many times, the club here does not train right and it shows at the trails. Again I would not train with them and why I travel to the next city to train.
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Old 06-04-2010, 08:51 PM   #14 (permalink)
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tracking easy.... i think it not only depends on the handler but also (a large part) the dog. i train with people that have put FH 3's on more than one dog. These are also people that are on the regional, national, and world level of competition. Having to force track a dog is not easy and they will all say the same. different dogs diff scenarios, same with ob and protection.
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Old 06-04-2010, 09:19 PM   #15 (permalink)
 
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hummm force tracking is hard and we talk about that all the time when we work on tracking at the club. No one in my club even our trainers are big on force tracking unless it is on a police dog. I know a lot of people who go for the big shows do force tracking but they are point chasers and not in it fr the dogs most of the time.

For your basic Sch handler tracking using motivation and later on maybe a little correct is all most people need. Anything you have to use force with like a retrieve or tacking is more work but i do not like to train that way.

I guess I didn't even think of forced tracking since no one down here we train with does it. But I guess if that is what you do there is more work involved. I guess I am luck all my dogs I have worked with track without major problems and like I said I find that the easy part.

So yeah people going to worlds and nationals go for those top points but your average handler is going for club trials or regionals. And your right it depends on the dog and handler some things just come natural or are easy. Just like if you came to a sport like agility I can make it look easy and for me it is easy. For someone else it could be like learning a new language or looking at an impossible riddle.
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