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OCD Bullyologist
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Raymond H. Oppenheimer


1. Remember that the animals you select for breeding today will have an impact on the breed for many years to come. Keep that thought firmly in mind when you choose breeding stock.



2. You can choose only two individuals per generation. Choose only the best, because you will have to wait for another generation to improve what you start with. Breed only if you expect the progeny to be better than both parents.



3. You cannot expect statistical predictions to hold true in a small number of animals (as in one litter of puppies). Statistics only apply to large populations.



4. A pedigree is a tool to help you learn the good and bad attributes that your dog is likely to exhibit or reproduce. A pedigree is only as good as the dog it represents.


5. Breed for a total dog, not just one or two characteristics. Don't follow fads in your breed, because they are usually meant to emphasize one or two features of the dog at the expense of the soundness and function of the whole.

6. Quality does not mean quantity. Quality is produced by careful study, having a good mental picture of what you are trying to achieve, having patience to wait until the right breeding stock is available and to evaluate what you have already produced, and above all, having a breeding plan that is at least three generations ahead of the breeding you do today.



7. Remember that skeletal defects are the most difficult to change.



8. Don't bother with a good dog that cannot produce well. Enjoy him (or her) for the beauty that he represents but don't use him in a breeding program.



9. Use out-crosses very sparingly. For each desirable characteristic you acquire, you will get many bad traits that you will have to eliminate in succeeding generations.



10. Inbreeding is a valuable tool, being the fastest method to set good characteristics and type. It brings to light hidden traits that need to be eliminated from the breed.



11. Breeding does not "create" anything. What you get is what was there to begin with. It may have been hidden for many generations, but it was there.



12. Discard the old cliché about the littermate of that great producer being just as good to breed to. Littermates seldom have the same genetic make-up.



13. Be honest with yourself. There are no perfect dogs (or bitches) nor are there perfect producers. You cannot do a competent job of breeding if you cannot recognize the faults and virtues of the dogs you plan to breed.



14. Hereditary traits are inherited equally from both parents. Do not expect to solve all of your problems in one generation.



15. If the worst puppy in your last litter is no better than the worst puppy in your first litter, you are not making progress. Your last litter should be your last litter.


16. If the best puppy in your last litter is no better than the best puppy in your first litter, you are not making progress. Your last litter should be your last litter.


17. Do not choose a breeding animal by either the best or the worst that he (or she) has produced. Evaluate the total get by the attributes of the majority.



18. Keep in mind that quality is a combination of soundness and function. It is not merely the lack of faults, but the positive presence of virtues. It is the whole dog that counts.



19. Don't allow personal feelings to influence your choice of breeding stock. The right dog for your breeding program is the right dog, whoever owns it. Don't ever decry a good dog; they are too rare and wonderful to be demeaned by pettiness.



20. Don't be satisfied with anything but the best. The second best is never good enough.
 

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OCD Bullyologist
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Ok. My apologies. I am of at least average intelligence, but spelling is not one of my stronger qualities. Would you please take a second look at my question after I have correctly spelled breed and spell checked the rest of my text.

You seem knowledgeable of what it takes to breed. So I'll ask you. Since I have decided I want an APBT I have done a lot of searching, and it seems like the AmBullys are the only thing Google can find. I am wanting to find a show quality or weight pull potential APBT. I have never found a website for real APBTs that mentions Inbreeding Coefficient and Ancestral Loss Coefficient. Inbreeding calculator I understand that a certain amount of inbreeding is necessary to retain desirable qualities, but when I get my dog I am hoping it will have 5% or less for its inbreeding coefficient, and greater than 80% for its ancestral loss coefficient. I want a sound healthy dog. I want to know where to find breeders who have at least heard of these formulas. I want a large dog maybe as much as 70lbs, but a dog that looks like a muscle chart with fur. Also I want to visit the yard and see the dam and sire. So geography is a factor. Any well spoken breeder of dogs that Diane Jessup and Louis Colby would recognize your dogs as APBT please reply.
 

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OCD Bullyologist
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Ok. My apologies. I am of at least average intelligence, but spelling is not one of my stronger qualities. Would you please take a second look at my question after I have correctly spelled breed and spell checked the rest of my text.

You seem knowledgeable of what it takes to breed. So I'll ask you. Since I have decided I want an APBT I have done a lot of searching, and it seems like the AmBullys are the only thing Google can find. I am wanting to find a show quality or weight pull potential APBT. I have never found a website for real APBTs that mentions Inbreeding Coefficient and Ancestral Loss Coefficient. Inbreeding calculator I understand that a certain amount of inbreeding is necessary to retain desirable qualities, but when I get my dog I am hoping it will have 5% or less for its inbreeding coefficient, and greater than 80% for its ancestral loss coefficient. I want a sound healthy dog. I want to know where to find breeders who have at least heard of these formulas. I want a large dog maybe as much as 70lbs, but a dog that looks like a muscle chart with fur. Also I want to visit the yard and see the dam and sire. So geography is a factor. Any well spoken breeder of dogs that Diane Jessup and Louis Colby would recognize your dogs as APBT please reply.
Hmmmm... Diane is kind of an idiot and I don't consider her a breed expert and Louis Colby is dead sooooo...... 70lbs is large for an APBT; however, there have been big dogs like that, Alligator being one that comes to mind. Are you looking for a weight pulling dog, conformation show dog, or just a pet????
 

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Is it unrealistic to think a dog could do both? I like the muscular definition of the weight pull dogs, but the competition is too intense. So I should probably stick to conformation.
 

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I don't mean to be a heart breaker but if your set on an apbt I'm afraid your either going to have to get in the right circles or drop your expectations some. Now listen. I love apbt. Even more than my wife probably but 90% of today's American pitbull terriers are not what they used to be. Now there are some dog men who have kept lines tight but there few and far between. Most have quit simply because they can't find anything worth breeding to. Limes are scattered across the board. If you want a dog an old school gamer would be proud to call pit, help spread the word that back yard breeders arewatering down the blood. If people could stop making such a mess then expierienced figment could start putting out the dogs of old again. And there would have to be some way to legally match them. If need be I would even support any other method of testing, as long as it showed the dogs heart and will.
 

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I agree that BYB are clueless for the most part and are making it hard for us to find quality dogs, but I'm not entirely convinced that these dogs are completely gone from the earth. At a show two old school dogs will stand on their hind legs and try to make contact with each other. I see these weight pull dogs pulling 100 times their weight for a little praise at the end of the rails. I don't need to see a dogs muzzle torn off or bleeding to death to know this dog would do anything. In the modern world we all get soft. I'm sure I'm not 1/2 as hard as my ancestors, but today I don't have to be. It's in the blood, and if it becomes important for survival it comes back to the surface. So I want a dog that has that gameness, but I will never know that he would jump out of the pit or quit on me because I wouldn't match them. Even Colby said that if you breed two dead game dogs you're lucky if one of the puppies is dead game. I would have to keep 20 dogs until they were 3 or buy adult dogs if I wanted to know if they were dead game. I want a dog that looks and behaves like a real APBT that I can take to weight pulls and shows for fun.
 

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I agree that BYB are clueless for the most part and are making it hard for us to find quality dogs, but I'm not entirely convinced that these dogs are completely gone from the earth. At a show two old school dogs will stand on their hind legs and try to make contact with each other. I see these weight pull dogs pulling 100 times their weight for a little praise at the end of the rails. I don't need to see a dogs muzzle torn off or bleeding to death to know this dog would do anything. In the modern world we all get soft. I'm sure I'm not 1/2 as hard as my ancestors, but today I don't have to be. It's in the blood, and if it becomes important for survival it comes back to the surface. So I want a dog that has that gameness, but I will never know that he would jump out of the pit or quit on me because I wouldn't match them. Even Colby said that if you breed two dead game dogs you're lucky if one of the puppies is dead game. I would have to keep 20 dogs until they were 3 or buy adult dogs if I wanted to know if they were dead game. I want a dog that looks and behaves like a real APBT that I can take to weight pulls and shows for fun.
How would you breed two dead dogs? Dead game dogs are dead, not being a stickler for syntax, just asking. No amount of dogs you keep will prove they're dead game.
 

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Honestly...I have no idea. I got the term from Colby's book. I would imagine that the breedings had taken place prior to their last fights, but that is my best guess.
 

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Colby's statement was rhetorical, and was referring to percentages and nothing more. Even a proven dog may not be a producer and there are no guarantees with dogs. As far as your search for "real" dogs goes there are plenty out there, a website only offers a brief glimpse into the skill that goes into maintaining dogs for the long haul. Are you in in the US?
 

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Number 10 about inbreeding is so very important. One of the best breeders of pits in the world told me that family breeding does bring to the front the traits that you want the most, but it also compounds the traits that you dont want also. it is the responsibility of the breeder to select and eliminate the bad ones. That is how great lines are made. Use the best that you produce and distroy the rest. Dont sell them, dont give them away.DO NOT REPRODUCE THEM. Mr. Heinzl gave me that sage advise.
 

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I believe these 20 principles. These principles are essential to preserve the best breed for your dogs.
 

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K9 Pshrynk & Conciliare~
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:goodpost: :goodpost:
some good points here... As if I said em myself.. Also some points I don't entirely agree with however they whole post is educational and hopefully more people read it and take it to heart. I follow Heinzl, and Colbys, work myself. YES .. those guys .. could pick a dead game pup out by watching it raise up out of the litter, they could pick a game pup by looking over the pups and seeing the interact. Its called ATTAINED knowledge or ESOTERIC Knowledge.. what people have in place is hysteria, ignorance, ego, and forgetfulness. Very few men understood pedigree analysis and game dogs the way Heinzl and JP did. I've said a good deal of whats posted here from thread to thread and it was all learned through experience or from understanding canine genetics through wolf rescue and rehabilitation as well as Colbys, Heinzls, work..
 

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i had a friend [who's dad's pit bull made the cover of the 1941 police gazette] tell me that his dad had showed him, how he could take ANY breed of dog and within 7 generations come up with game dogs consistently.
thru selective breeding and culling hard. think about it when do you get reconized with th 'PR' at UKC after 7 generations.
 

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K9 Pshrynk & Conciliare~
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IF it was on the color of the Police Gazette than it was a game dog because the best of show in those days was side by side with the []. Best in show, gamest in show.. So on.

IN the beginning of UKC the dogs automatically had to win 2 against a dog that had already won once or twice.. Dog matches quit being put in the Police Gazette shortly after WWII when american boxing started to REALLY come on board. IT was always a gentlemens sport despite what propaganda says. Of course there is always a bad apple involved in any sport, especially contests...

7 generations is how many ancestors contributed DNA (mtDna and Dna goes back 1000s of yrs) from 256 ancestors each giving the dog a DNA source from 20,000 + potential sources. Its the same for all mammals.

Keepin it all in line is just that :) Keeping the Gene pool strong .. done right with diversity stemming from the same source can be the strongest source of DNA for any of the breed.
 
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