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color and gamenss is hard to say. I have 1 all white black nose (Daisy) and she HATES red nose dogs. No lie. Shes fine with tonka, dora, king and kera & other black nose dogs...but she always goes after nilla and now bella and other blue nose and red nose dogs... . Kera, nilla, dora, tonka, king and bella love all dogs and its just weird they are like people. It's like saying all itallians that have green eyes are NASTY or sumtin. IDK that JMO
 
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K9 Pshrynk & Conciliare~
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When did fighting dogs eventually become the APBT? Europe had a bunch of different Bull-terrier fighters and a lot of them were imported over here. They were all probably seperate breeds in their own right but eventually mixed together to obtain the perfect specimen. My other question is if Colby Dogs are mainly one of those strains, then it's not the mix of all those dogs but a different, original strain all together. Is it truly the American pitbull Terrier?
NO.. they are American Pit Bulldogs or Game-bred Bulldogs (my preffered term) a APBT had to have 2 wins to be registered as an APBT by the UKC the OLDEST U.S. registery designed just for the APBT, ADBA came about cause they felt UKC wasn't honoring game bred dogs anymore thus the TRUE APBT by THEIR own STANDARDS...

the first terriers registered were from inbreeding pit bulldogs in England because the comon ppl need a dog that was a straight working dog and menace to any critter.. all other terriers came from crossbreeding and inbreeding and so forth and so on.

IN the APBT... You will notice dogs with the terrier gait and walk, a bulldog gait and walk, you will see dogs that stand like cows and move like a horse, you will see small and large snipey and blocky,dogs with alligater jaws and whippet (no I don't think there are whippets in there just an examp of looks) lil bodies it is the most divereged; purebred dog in the world.. Its only rival was.. WAS the original Dogue De Bordeaux which was 3 strains of fighting dogs.

working dogs are mutts bred pure for the function as we all know, so if its proven it went into the pot, some went in before and thus why blues fell before the reds... LOL nothing proven LOL I got jokes :roll:
 

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Reading this thread made me think of something I saw online the other day. Some guy was trying to stud out his blue American Bully, saying he is a rare blue American Bulldog. I know for a fact there is no such thing as a blue American Bulldog. I don't think blue has ever showed up in that breed at all. They are mostly white with brindle, but they can have some black or tan colored spots. This makes me think of the old world bulldogs. Have you ever seen one that is blue? I think blue is pretty much a trend and everyone wants one. :(
 

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I think dogmen of the old saw certain traits linked to certain family of dogs (bloodlines) and they may have associated color with those traits and qualities. It's been said the black dogs have hard mouth ... the red dogs are deep game... Just have to go read your history books you will see that dog men def had their picks ;)

Which brings me back to my point blue dogs didn't show up enough for dog men to really form an opinion of their gameness they were culled because they were rare and never got a chance to prove anything LOL Dog men used what worked what had already been proven to work through years of selective breeding and culling.
 

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Reading this thread made me think of something I saw online the other day. Some guy was trying to stud out his blue American Bully, saying he is a rare blue American Bulldog. I know for a fact there is no such thing as a blue American Bulldog. I don't think blue has ever showed up in that breed at all. They are mostly white with brindle, but they can have some black or tan colored spots. This makes me think of the old world bulldogs. Have you ever seen one that is blue? I think blue is pretty much a trend and everyone wants one. :(
Look at my thread on working dogs in the VIP you will see two black american bulldogs. I have also seen blue fawn johnson american bulldogs.
 

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K9 Pshrynk & Conciliare~
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Old dogmen culled full grown dogs as well, as they had to be 2 generally to be tested ..

They learned from experience... after all thats what education is, revealed moments of truth through experience and prefferably enlightenment.. LOL
 

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Amen William this is true !!!! It's no surprise the bellon dogs threw some blue dogs and that family of dogs from what I have heard were game as heck!! That's why soga is the only known BLUE grch on the planet Or for FH slate blue ;)
 

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Amen William this is true !!!! It's no surprise the bellon dogs threw some blue dogs and that family of dogs from what I have heard were game as heck!! That's why soga is the only known BLUE grch on the planet Or for FH slate blue ;)
:clap: L:rofl:L gosh ..

haha for sure, opinions vary some would cur that blue right off from the experiences of the old dogmen.. others are like WHY?

I would go with my gut at the moment probably, if I had no traces before, I would probably call it black dillute .. LOL just to call it out.. I guess Im bias to the Original Game Bred Bulldogs of yesteryear..
 

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Look at my thread on working dogs in the VIP you will see two black american bulldogs. I have also seen blue fawn johnson american bulldogs.
Those dogs were real cool. I love me some American Bulldogs :) I have seen the blue fawn looking ones but I have never seen a pure blue one, and I don't think we will ever see a pure one. Blue in American Bulldogs is a major fault and totally unacceptable for the breed standard.
 

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Kind of what i thought might hae just been culling them cause they were like what the heck is that, get rid of it. lol. Just wondering.
I think dogmen of the old saw certain traits linked to certain family of dogs (bloodlines) and they may have associated color with those traits and qualities. It's been said the black dogs have hard mouth ... the red dogs are deep game... Just have to go read your history books you will see that dog men def had their picks

Which brings me back to my point blue dogs didn't show up enough for dog men to really form an opinion of their gameness they were culled because they were rare and before they got a chance to prove anything LOL Dog men used what worked what had already been proven to work through years of selective breeding and culling.
 

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Makes a lil scenes but seem kinda dumb at the same time. I try to remember that was a different time. Thinking was different then too.
 

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So if blue dogs showed up in the days of the dog men then why can't it show up in our dogs today? I think that a good majority of the so called "blue pits" do come from some sort of crossing but I'm sure there are some true ones too. I don't think they are going to be as light as some of the American Bullies you see but it is totally possible with the right genes.
 

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blue game dogs didnt come about in register til IMP II and Lightner been in the game a long time he was obviously experimenting with an idea in his mind from discussions much like this.

the outcome Searcys Jeff and Imp, ImpII and Dan.. .. ~ so does it have merrit.. ??? Im curious as to what kinda dogs that bellon dog got his wins against and at the same time I call this the rare one of kind, the one that woulda been culled because of other undesirable traits associated with the color. SO kinda Lightner performed a scientific experiment for us, and we can see the thinking of old dog men doesnt go without merrit.. Of course the slate blue trait is there ;) in game dogs but its RARE its like getting that freak 90lbs game dog out of 50 and 60 lbs dogs, only 3 I know of and 2 are legendary Eli dogs .. LOL one bred by Carver :p

Proof is in the pudding, again Id like to know if that bellon dog competed with any Lukane, or Barracuda type dogs or against a buck dog. ?? Kinda like those 3 blues of lightners meeting lightner red stock .. LOL Yeah..........

I like how Sadie put it; at the same time, ethically as game dog breeders that color should be culled.. like an all white dog or blue eyed dog.. according to the old school ethics of game bred bulldogs of course in registered APBTs of old.
That bellon dog is gorgeous in conformation IMO I love the how its put together, so as a cute lil pup,, OH my.. but thats the kinda thing that makes one a hypocrite, ya know.. CULL IT.. :"( it's part of it.. game bred dogs require the highest cull rate ..
 

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SCRATCH THAT.. ^^^^^^^
a NO CULL solution :D

People have tried with watchdog stuff.. but with all the indiviual breeds and seperation of what defines an APBT or a game bred bulldog. IT would take time that is not forced but yet timed and gathered specimens.. Take a dog like that bellon dog, and over the years gather up the other slate blue :p dogs that pop up out of game litters and only breed proven blues to proven blues and the genetics of the Blue Paul is there SO~ what a nice recreation out of current "APBT" stock ... as the Blue Paul was a fighting dog and its genetics lie in todays only game bred dog bred for match(figting).. So without culling one by one as they appear and are proven that is something that makes more sense in my mind. .. but then again :roll: my mind is like them wheels always rollin..


in that case, I may have a Blue Paul (rasberry) because its game bred in its own right and its own line of dog not to be mixed with game bred bulldogs/APBT..
 

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The important thing to remember is in true game lines blue was never a desired color as stated it's not that the color can't or doesn't exist as shown in pedigrees posted it does show up from time to time but not in ever single breeding and certainly not as often as some would like you to believe. Sadly even today some of those ignorant beliefs about blue dogs being game are carried on into the newer generation of dogmen mentality. Remember they laid the foundation for many things and many still follow suite. It doesn't help what has happened with the whole blue dog movement as being rare and special it makes fanciers of the breed dislike the color even more. There may be blue dogs being bred for the box but because the sport is illegal in the Us we are less likely to hear about it happening.
 

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keep it up I say!!!hehehe
ya'll gonna make me put my bitch in keep,knock 20# off of her and give her A run I swear by golly.
I'm tellin you,ya know how some of them old guys,they'd set for hours and watch A litter of 3-6 month old dogs,how they play fight,and check each other,what holds they apply,who gangs up and why,which one gets picked on then fights from the ground up,and is comfortable doing it.
well,this dog,she'd have made grade to roll.
 
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