Go Pitbull Forums banner

1 - 20 of 61 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,147 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Now this is directed at noone and just looking for opinions from both sides really , this is one of those things that can be looked at from either side.
Lately it seems like we hear alot of people talk about how horrible it was when they picked up there pups, the puppy was sick or there were unsanitary conditions they lived in or the owners just didnt care for there dogs or was a puppy mill and they just felt like they couldnt leave the puppy there they had to save it. Now as honerable as that is you have to step back and wonder are you really helping ? Or if you save that 1 dog making a sale for that breeder they think hey we moved those dogs out quick lets do another breeding, and another and another so saving that one dog arent you really just making room for more?
I think { IMO} people these days are so set in "helping" a dog they may go into things like that blindly I think and then wonder why there new pup is so sick and why there pup has parvo and other horrible things wrong , or grow older and have temperment issues cause they never took the proper time to research the parents and breeder and such , can lead to alot of heart ache.
Im not judging anyone at all trust me I got my 1st girl from a not so reputable breeder who had similar living conditions mentioned above its deff a learning curve we had. But what is everyones thoughts , are you actually helping the situation for these dogs or just making room for more problems?
{ also not talking about rescuing from a reputable shelter ,this is just aimed for those BYB / puppy mill / unsanitary situations}
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,587 Posts
IMO When a person finds a puppy in this situation, they should contact the proper authorities. Most states have laws about these things. If there are none, then a quick call to a few local news stations would do as well. I wouldn't purchase the puppy. I would wait until it went through the system and if it's healthy enough to adopt out, then I would adopt it. Again, just my opinion.
 

·
my crazy little mutt pack
Joined
·
3,272 Posts
Imo these people only see supply amd demand, as long as thete is buyers no matter why you bought, they will continue to produce. So as Ecko said contact the authorities do NOT buy the pup your only causing futher heartache for future pups. Jmo
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
373 Posts
this is a very valid argument one i like, i do breed my dogs they r working animals either on ranches or for hogs they have been used for many different reasons i am very careful how i breed and its usually just once a year if i do i tend to skip a few heats for its difficult to sell these dogs and im not in it to sell them, i usually end up with one or two keeping for quite some time until they have been trained and then theyh go out but thats the thing i have the means and property to keep extra pups the reason i have to most of the time is because owners have to sighn a contract when they get my pups it scares alot of the bad buyers off i will not allow my dogs to be bred once they have been sold unless they get bred back into something on my yard and thats it i know where every dog i have produced is whether it is a family pet or a working pet, i love this breed and i will have a pitbull in my life until they lay me down. thts my side of the argument lol
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,147 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
IMO When a person finds a puppy in this situation, they should contact the proper authorities. Most states have laws about these things. If there are none, then a quick call to a few local news stations would do as well. I wouldn't purchase the puppy. I would wait until it went through the system and if it's healthy enough to adopt out, then I would adopt it. Again, just my opinion.
:goodpost::goodpost: totally agree

BTW when I went to post that :goodpost: I almost posted :stupid: they switched the sign guys in the smilie box here lol I had to click "more" to get that one now LOLOL.
 

·
English Dogge Yard
Joined
·
3,441 Posts
To me, no one is helping anything if they aren't educated enough to not only handle the pup or dogs medical/health situations but also the dog itself. Majority of these dogs that are being "saved" i hardly consider an APBT, many mixed/unknown as these dogs are not coming from a good source of breeding.

So many have to ask themselves if they fully understand what situation they are bringing on to themselves. Unknown history of breeding, unknown medical/health potential issues throughout that pups life, unknown temperament, etc.. The list goes on and IMO very few out there are equipped enough to handle those type of dogs both emotionally, physically and in other ways such as training.. That sweet pup can turn out highly DA, highly HA, highly reactive, high drive or high energy and the list can go on from what is considered "norm" for the breed to genetic disasters..

As honorable as it is to save a dogs life i would say 95% of all that do shouldn't. For that matter i'd also say that a fairly "large" percentage of those that own bulldogs shouldn't own them either.. No where near as "large" as most breeders breeding "true" know what they have and wont just pass their pups down to any fool with cash however it does happen from time to time, and its 50-50 whether those fools with them dogs are going to further breed and continue the problem of people owning these fine hounds without a clue as to what they are feeding.

Anyway, as popular as it is now in days to save these "pet bulls" everyone wants one.. All in how you raise them and their pitty witties wont hurt a fly right? ...Is what it is, owning a dog is a trend and leading these trends are small designer dogs and "Pet Bulls", unknown "pit bull type dogs" and Bully/"Bully type dogs".. They look cool man, real tough with these genetic disasters running around..

For those that have had their hands in these dogs, its amusing.. Just take your game dog or bulldog out and these very same people will say your dog is underweight, mixed or some other random breed.. No way thats a bulldog man!

Oh and these fools that pay to take these pups off BYB's thinking they are "saving"... Don't get me started, just as part of the problem as any.. Might have the heart in the right place but lack utterly common sense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: angelbaby

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,147 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
To me, no one is helping anything if they aren't educated enough to not only handle the pup or dogs medical/health situations but also the dog itself. Majority of these dogs that are being "saved" i hardly consider an APBT, many mixed/unknown as these dogs are not coming from a good source of breeding.

So many have to ask themselves if they fully understand what situation they are bringing on to themselves. Unknown history of breeding, unknown medical/health potential issues throughout that pups life, unknown temperament, etc.. The list goes on and IMO very few out there are equipped enough to handle those type of dogs both emotionally, physically and in other ways such as training.. That sweet pup can turn out highly DA, highly HA, highly reactive, high drive or high energy and the list can go on from what is considered "norm" for the breed to genetic disasters..

As honorable as it is to save a dogs life i would say 95% of all that do shouldn't. For that matter i'd also say that a fairly "large" percentage of those that own bulldogs shouldn't own them either.. No where near as "large" as most breeders breeding "true" know what they have and wont just pass their pups down to any fool with cash however it does happen from time to time, and its 50-50 whether those fools with them dogs are going to further breed and continue the problem of people owning these fine hounds without a clue as to what they are feeding.

Anyway, as popular as it is now in days to save these "pet bulls" everyone wants one.. All in how you raise them and their pitty witties wont hurt a fly right? ...Is what it is, owning a dog is a trend and leading these trends are small designer dogs and "Pet Bulls", unknown "pit bull type dogs" and Bully/"Bully type dogs".. They look cool man, real tough with these genetic disasters running around..

For those that have had their hands in these dogs, its amusing.. Just take your game dog or bulldog out and these very same people will say your dog is underweight, mixed or some other random breed.. No way thats a bulldog man!

Oh and these fools that pay to take these pups off BYB's thinking they are "saving"... Don't get me started, just as part of the problem as any.. Might have the heart in the right place but lack utterly common sense.
:goodpost:
and thats a big thing too , I hear that all the time "its how you raise them", when in actual fact it really isnt. Sure environmental issues can effect there personality to a point but gentics is always going to play the biggest part, the part where HA or DA comes into play. Adopting or "saving" a dog from a rescue a reputable rescue where they atleast temperment test and medically check the dog out is atleast IMO a better option then getting from this person who cares nothing about the dog and probably wouldnt notice if there own dogs got into a fight let alone check temperments and traits the parents carry. Which brings Eckos point back up report them and then if the shelter sees fit to adopt them out do so through them.{ not saying shelter dogs cant pop up with problems , only so much they can tell with pups before they have even reached maturity, but they do a bit more then the puppy miller would}
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
740 Posts
why not adopt a dog from a rescue instead? at a rescue youre not sure of line etc but it comes:

spay neut
usually temperment tested
usually vet checked
usually put utd on shots
usually a place to return dog if it doesnt work out.

byb = you pay money to get ...well
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
411 Posts
No, it's not helping. I had a friend a few years back who bought a dog from a PET STORE! When I gave her stuff about supporting a puppy mill she tried to justify it as she was "saving" a puppy mill puppy. More like "perpetuating"!

I realize that there are some very competent people on this site who work their dogs and breed them for certain characteristics and I don't object to people with a clear goal and understanding of the breed producing a litter with a purpose. But I do object STRONGLY to anyone who breeds for "fun and profit" rather than the betterment of the breed.

My dogs are pets. Every dog I've ever owned was a pet and was adopted from a rescue/shelter/pound. There are too many perfectly good dogs being put down every day because of careless irresponsible breeders and owners. And again, I know this is a pitbull forum and you all are breed fans. I got Maggie, my staffie/pit whatever she is cause she was a dog I connected with at the shelter. But, my breed of choice was and still is Rhodesian Ridgebacks. I don't currently have one cause I couldn't find one within a twelve hour drive after our RR passed away and we had room for another dog or two. And even though I really, really wanted another Ridgeback I couldn't justify buying a puppy (to be a house pet) from a breeder and condemning another shelter dog to death.

When you pay a backyard breeder for a puppy it doesn't matter what your personal reasons or justifications are - your money is just as green as any fools and you just encouraged them to keep breeding.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
11,000 Posts
I think its hurting as well, but to reporting the breeder, do you think anything would realistically happen? especially if they have been doing it for a while already, I am sure they would maybe get a ticket but would they be stopped? I don't have experience to know, but it seems like they would be able to correct the situation short term to get the heat off them, then continue to profit.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
319 Posts
IMO, if you find a pup in a bad situation you should not buy it.

above everything else every puppy no matter where it comes from should be updated on vacc's and wormings and also be healthy otherwise....

I would also like the to see a pup already socialized, pups should be ready for the new home so the owners are not "behind" of the process....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
471 Posts
First I would like to say that yes I got Izzo from one of these situations , she also had parvo and so did the rest of her litter .. I didnt pay for them .. but still ... I am a animal lover in general and while I wouldnt pay for a puppy from a BYB but a do is a dog .. you can have pedigreed dog with a horrible temperament.. My mom had a AKC GSD that ended up attacking a kid next door out of nowhere .. I love me dog and while I wish she had papers and I could show her I cant and OH WELL .. Also I agree that if you see a litter of puppies that are in horrible conditions you should conatact a NO KILL shelter of some kind .. so that the breeder can no longer make a profit , and the animals in the mill can be well taken care of and loved like deserve .. I worked in a shelter for a long time and let me tell you there are plenty of people here in Michigan that turn people in .. I have taking litters out of the homes myself ..

To me, no one is helping anything if they aren't educated enough to not only handle the pup or dogs medical/health situations but also the dog itself. Majority of these dogs that are being "saved" i hardly consider an APBT, many mixed/unknown as these dogs are not coming from a good source of breeding.

So many have to ask themselves if they fully understand what situation they are bringing on to themselves. Unknown history of breeding, unknown medical/health potential issues throughout that pups life, unknown temperament, etc.. The list goes on and IMO very few out there are equipped enough to handle those type of dogs both emotionally, physically and in other ways such as training.. That sweet pup can turn out highly DA, highly HA, highly reactive, high drive or high energy and the list can go on from what is considered "norm" for the breed to genetic disasters..

As honorable as it is to save a dogs life i would say 95% of all that do shouldn't. For that matter i'd also say that a fairly "large" percentage of those that own bulldogs shouldn't own them either.. No where near as "large" as most breeders breeding "true" know what they have and wont just pass their pups down to any fool with cash however it does happen from time to time, and its 50-50 whether those fools with them dogs are going to further breed and continue the problem of people owning these fine hounds without a clue as to what they are feeding.

Anyway, as popular as it is now in days to save these "pet bulls" everyone wants one.. All in how you raise them and their pitty witties wont hurt a fly right? ...Is what it is, owning a dog is a trend and leading these trends are small designer dogs and "Pet Bulls", unknown "pit bull type dogs" and Bully/"Bully type dogs".. They look cool man, real tough with these genetic disasters running around..

For those that have had their hands in these dogs, its amusing.. Just take your game dog or bulldog out and these very same people will say your dog is underweight, mixed or some other random breed.. No way thats a bulldog man!

Oh and these fools that pay to take these pups off BYB's thinking they are "saving"... Don't get me started, just as part of the problem as any.. Might have the heart in the right place but lack utterly common sense.
2. I have to say K.M you are very opinionated for someone who owns ban dogs .. for someone who doesnt even own a true apbt you have alot of rude remarks to people who dont either .. I find it also interesting that you find people "with these dogs Amusing" I happen too own two .. and yes I know about the health problems and let you rest assured I am more then fully aware of these concerns .. I know now, knew and honestly didnt care when I saw Izzo .. and as a Fool I do have to say that no i didnt think I was SAVING MY MONEY but I did know I was saving a life .. and like I said I didnt pay for Izzo or Weiser .. Nor do I think that game-bred dogs are underweight , mixed with anything or some other random breed .. I think they are well built game bred APBT's .. I do have to say that I find you and your remarks offensive in every way .. Just because my dog came from circumstances that were questionable does not mean that 1. I didnt report the POS that bred her the day I took her litter home 2. I didnt know that it was probably going to be sleepless nights and a emptying of my savings to save them 3. if it came down too it and there were health problems I would have to put them down .. but atleast I gave them a chance at life .. atleast I have taken the precautions needed .. My dogs are well taken care of thank you and to be honest I think you are WAY more opinionated then any scatterbred or possible mix breed pitbull or "petbull" owner out there ..

I refuse to be ashamed of my dogs anymore .. sorry

Lol and please dont respond with a multi paragraph BS page like before .. it didnt work last time and I can promise now that I am starting to understand what it is your all about I could really care less =]
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,147 Posts
No, it's not helping. I had a friend a few years back who bought a dog from a PET STORE! When I gave her stuff about supporting a puppy mill she tried to justify it as she was "saving" a puppy mill puppy. More like "perpetuating"!

I realize that there are some very competent people on this site who work their dogs and breed them for certain characteristics and I don't object to people with a clear goal and understanding of the breed producing a litter with a purpose. But I do object STRONGLY to anyone who breeds for "fun and profit" rather than the betterment of the breed.

My dogs are pets. Every dog I've ever owned was a pet and was adopted from a rescue/shelter/pound. There are too many perfectly good dogs being put down every day because of careless irresponsible breeders and owners. And again, I know this is a pitbull forum and you all are breed fans. I got Maggie, my staffie/pit whatever she is cause she was a dog I connected with at the shelter. But, my breed of choice was and still is Rhodesian Ridgebacks. I don't currently have one cause I couldn't find one within a twelve hour drive after our RR passed away and we had room for another dog or two. And even though I really, really wanted another Ridgeback I couldn't justify buying a puppy (to be a house pet) from a breeder and condemning another shelter dog to death.

When you pay a backyard breeder for a puppy it doesn't matter what your personal reasons or justifications are - your money is just as green as any fools and you just encouraged them to keep breeding.
See I agree with you on most parts here when looking at shelter vs BYB , but

" I couldn't justify buying a puppy (to be a house pet) from a breeder and condemning another shelter dog to death."

It does make me think those who chose to buy from a shelter for this reason well where do you think the majority of those puppys in shelters come from? So I dont agree with that statement persay but I do see your point and there are many valid reason to argue why to adopt shelter vs breeder and vice versa.
I know a couple people who would just dump dogs at the shelter that they cant sell , so makes me wonder if they cant sell pups but can dump them when they get to that "not so cute" age will they just go back to breed more and hope they can sell more this time around I think they will. So it seems to me to be a kinda vicious circle that doesnt end with these millers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Finn18

·
English Dogge Yard
Joined
·
3,441 Posts
2. I have to say K.M you are very opinionated for someone who owns ban dogs .. for someone who doesnt even own a true apbt you have alot of rude remarks to people who dont either .. I find it also interesting that you find people "with these dogs Amusing" I happen too own two .. and yes I know about the health problems and let you rest assured I am more then fully aware of these concerns .. I know now, knew and honestly didnt care when I saw Izzo .. and as a Fool I do have to say that no i didnt think I was SAVING MY MONEY but I did know I was saving a life .. and like I said I didnt pay for Izzo or Weiser .. Nor do I think that game-bred dogs are underweight , mixed with anything or some other random breed .. I think they are well built game bred APBT's .. I do have to say that I find you and your remarks offensive in every way .. Just because my dog came from circumstances that were questionable does not mean that 1. I didnt report the POS that bred her the day I took her litter home 2. I didnt know that it was probably going to be sleepless nights and a emptying of my savings to save them 3. if it came down too it and there were health problems I would have to put them down .. but atleast I gave them a chance at life .. atleast I have taken the precautions needed .. My dogs are well taken care of thank you and to be honest I think you are WAY more opinionated then any scatterbred or possible mix breed pitbull or "petbull" owner out there ..

I refuse to be ashamed of my dogs anymore .. sorry
Well firstly i have owned "true" bulldogs for years prior to these two Bandogs i own currently, so while you are correct i do not own APBT's at the moment i have plenty of experience with bulldogs, more than many on here do IMO be able to pass along my opinion or knowledge. I don't believe i should be "penalized" for what i own currently (in a sense) when i have the years of experience to offer.. Plus regardless of what i own and how anyone sees them, (Bandogs, Mutts, Mastiffs, Bulldogs, etc) i still went through proper breeders and know what i'm feeding vs going through BYB, HSUS, etc. So again, while you have your opinion of me and i can respect your opinion so long as its done so respectfully, in the end i personally don't see what you said has to do much with the topic or anything else i have to offer. IMO some people get too caught up with what i own vs the grand "picture"... But again if you feel i have no right in speaking, thats your opinion and you are more than entitled to it. I have helped quite a few on here and i believe in the end the vast majority see me as a knowledgable member, might not agree to every single thing i say and may have some arguments from time to time but everyone does.. and no one is going to agree 100% all the time with anyone.

Now i will say it seems any time (and i do mean any time) i say something that can directly affect people on here i try to keep it respectful, unless i obviously mean to i normally don't mean to offend anyone here on a personal level. However this is typed and no one knows how i mean my posts except me so if it comes off as offensive to some, i can't really help that nor am i going to apologize for it because in the end its probably not how i meant it.. Theres also the trend that where i do speak out, normally about "pet bulls", breeding practices, rescues, etc... Is when people come back after me and my dogs. Kind of funny in a way, i've said it before and will say it again.. I'm a fairly private person, not that many people here have taken the time to actually get to know me.. Its all judge mental based on opinions.. Partially do it to myself by not being as open as others, partially others faults for assuming.. The quote "It does not take facts to acquire opinion." comes to mind... That and the "Everyone has an opinion..."

Now this thread is not based on me or my dogs however i just wanted to clear that up, if you still want to discuss things feel free to PM me or we can just leave it at that. It seems these type of conversations lead to "KM's dogs" often so lets try not to do it again with this thread.

why not adopt a dog from a rescue instead? at a rescue youre not sure of line etc but it comes:

spay neut
usually temperment tested
usually vet checked
usually put utd on shots
usually a place to return dog if it doesnt work out.

byb = you pay money to get ...well
While i get what you are saying and to a good degree i agree with you.. Rescue over BYB or "saving" from a BYB.. It still boils down to how knowledgable that new owner is.. The vast majority (not all) that rescue these "type" of dogs shouldnt. It can be seen time and time again with these dog park debates for instance.. But the big picture, i agree with ya.
 

·
Jr MEMBER
Joined
·
1,309 Posts
IMO When a person finds a puppy in this situation, they should contact the proper authorities. Most states have laws about these things. If there are none, then a quick call to a few local news stations would do as well. I wouldn't purchase the puppy. I would wait until it went through the system and if it's healthy enough to adopt out, then I would adopt it. Again, just my opinion.
Darn-it, stole my words!:p
 

·
RateMyPitbull.com Moderator
Joined
·
4,389 Posts
In general, are you helping? No. One side of the argument is that buying a puppy or saving a puppy from a BYB encourages the breeder to produce more puppies, thus, only adding to the problem.

But, are you helping on a small scale? Yes. You are saving one pup, but possibly damning dozens more. So, are you helping? Yes. Are you also causing more damage? Yes.

I think that a lot of people love their own dogs more than the breed itself. They justify that love by arguing that they were helping. Hey, one person can't save them all, right? But one person can save one dog. They do not have to look into the eyes of further litters. They do not have to think about the litter mates they left behind. They get to snuggle up with their pet at night, sleeping soundly because they feel like someone's savior. And in all reality, given the choice, they probably would not trade their one dog for the dozens that suffer after it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,377 Posts
Good topic. I'd say that the small scale helping that smokey joe refers to is outweighed by the potential harm that supporting BYBs does.

I subscribe to the theory that it does encourage further breeding because, hey, it was so easy to sell all those pups, lets do that again when she comes into season the next time!

Again, this is not to judge anyone who has done so (and plenty have) because obviously it's hard to ignore an animal's suffering and think of the bigger picture. If you could get the dog/dogs out of the situation without paying the miller for it then that's all well and good. Unfortunately, millers and BYBs know how to prey on people's emotions to get them for a quick buck and the cycle begins again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,428 Posts
The way a man keeps his yard shows a lot about how he cares for his pups. If a man doesn't value his yard than he places little value on his breeding program and the animals he feeds. I don't feel sorry when I see a worthless pet who was bred out of sheer ignorance. What I feel is what a shame another poorly bred example or mutt with an unproven history that will take up another spot in a shelter and will eventually be put down if no one adopts it. While those worthless dogs are sitting in shelters these same clueless owner's are seeking out pup's rapidly from Byb's and have no idea they are supporting these breeder's enabling them to continue peddling off more worthless pets on craigslist, newspaper's, websites, and even dog bulletin forums.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,428 Posts
I just wanted to add if I came across a pup/litter in poor conditions and the so called breeder asked me to take all the pup's I would for the benefit of the breed take them and cull them myself.
 
1 - 20 of 61 Posts
Top