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But he/ she came from horrible breeders I couldnt leave him ... is it helping ?

7K views 60 replies 20 participants last post by  redog 
#1 ·
Now this is directed at noone and just looking for opinions from both sides really , this is one of those things that can be looked at from either side.
Lately it seems like we hear alot of people talk about how horrible it was when they picked up there pups, the puppy was sick or there were unsanitary conditions they lived in or the owners just didnt care for there dogs or was a puppy mill and they just felt like they couldnt leave the puppy there they had to save it. Now as honerable as that is you have to step back and wonder are you really helping ? Or if you save that 1 dog making a sale for that breeder they think hey we moved those dogs out quick lets do another breeding, and another and another so saving that one dog arent you really just making room for more?
I think { IMO} people these days are so set in "helping" a dog they may go into things like that blindly I think and then wonder why there new pup is so sick and why there pup has parvo and other horrible things wrong , or grow older and have temperment issues cause they never took the proper time to research the parents and breeder and such , can lead to alot of heart ache.
Im not judging anyone at all trust me I got my 1st girl from a not so reputable breeder who had similar living conditions mentioned above its deff a learning curve we had. But what is everyones thoughts , are you actually helping the situation for these dogs or just making room for more problems?
{ also not talking about rescuing from a reputable shelter ,this is just aimed for those BYB / puppy mill / unsanitary situations}
 
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#2 ·
IMO When a person finds a puppy in this situation, they should contact the proper authorities. Most states have laws about these things. If there are none, then a quick call to a few local news stations would do as well. I wouldn't purchase the puppy. I would wait until it went through the system and if it's healthy enough to adopt out, then I would adopt it. Again, just my opinion.
 
#6 ·
:goodpost::goodpost: totally agree

BTW when I went to post that :goodpost: I almost posted :stupid: they switched the sign guys in the smilie box here lol I had to click "more" to get that one now LOLOL.
 
#3 ·
Imo these people only see supply amd demand, as long as thete is buyers no matter why you bought, they will continue to produce. So as Ecko said contact the authorities do NOT buy the pup your only causing futher heartache for future pups. Jmo
 
#4 ·
this is a very valid argument one i like, i do breed my dogs they r working animals either on ranches or for hogs they have been used for many different reasons i am very careful how i breed and its usually just once a year if i do i tend to skip a few heats for its difficult to sell these dogs and im not in it to sell them, i usually end up with one or two keeping for quite some time until they have been trained and then theyh go out but thats the thing i have the means and property to keep extra pups the reason i have to most of the time is because owners have to sighn a contract when they get my pups it scares alot of the bad buyers off i will not allow my dogs to be bred once they have been sold unless they get bred back into something on my yard and thats it i know where every dog i have produced is whether it is a family pet or a working pet, i love this breed and i will have a pitbull in my life until they lay me down. thts my side of the argument lol
 
#7 ·
To me, no one is helping anything if they aren't educated enough to not only handle the pup or dogs medical/health situations but also the dog itself. Majority of these dogs that are being "saved" i hardly consider an APBT, many mixed/unknown as these dogs are not coming from a good source of breeding.

So many have to ask themselves if they fully understand what situation they are bringing on to themselves. Unknown history of breeding, unknown medical/health potential issues throughout that pups life, unknown temperament, etc.. The list goes on and IMO very few out there are equipped enough to handle those type of dogs both emotionally, physically and in other ways such as training.. That sweet pup can turn out highly DA, highly HA, highly reactive, high drive or high energy and the list can go on from what is considered "norm" for the breed to genetic disasters..

As honorable as it is to save a dogs life i would say 95% of all that do shouldn't. For that matter i'd also say that a fairly "large" percentage of those that own bulldogs shouldn't own them either.. No where near as "large" as most breeders breeding "true" know what they have and wont just pass their pups down to any fool with cash however it does happen from time to time, and its 50-50 whether those fools with them dogs are going to further breed and continue the problem of people owning these fine hounds without a clue as to what they are feeding.

Anyway, as popular as it is now in days to save these "pet bulls" everyone wants one.. All in how you raise them and their pitty witties wont hurt a fly right? ...Is what it is, owning a dog is a trend and leading these trends are small designer dogs and "Pet Bulls", unknown "pit bull type dogs" and Bully/"Bully type dogs".. They look cool man, real tough with these genetic disasters running around..

For those that have had their hands in these dogs, its amusing.. Just take your game dog or bulldog out and these very same people will say your dog is underweight, mixed or some other random breed.. No way thats a bulldog man!

Oh and these fools that pay to take these pups off BYB's thinking they are "saving"... Don't get me started, just as part of the problem as any.. Might have the heart in the right place but lack utterly common sense.
 
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#8 · (Edited)
:goodpost:
and thats a big thing too , I hear that all the time "its how you raise them", when in actual fact it really isnt. Sure environmental issues can effect there personality to a point but gentics is always going to play the biggest part, the part where HA or DA comes into play. Adopting or "saving" a dog from a rescue a reputable rescue where they atleast temperment test and medically check the dog out is atleast IMO a better option then getting from this person who cares nothing about the dog and probably wouldnt notice if there own dogs got into a fight let alone check temperments and traits the parents carry. Which brings Eckos point back up report them and then if the shelter sees fit to adopt them out do so through them.{ not saying shelter dogs cant pop up with problems , only so much they can tell with pups before they have even reached maturity, but they do a bit more then the puppy miller would}
 
#9 ·
why not adopt a dog from a rescue instead? at a rescue youre not sure of line etc but it comes:

spay neut
usually temperment tested
usually vet checked
usually put utd on shots
usually a place to return dog if it doesnt work out.

byb = you pay money to get ...well
 
#10 · (Edited by Moderator)
No, it's not helping. I had a friend a few years back who bought a dog from a PET STORE! When I gave her stuff about supporting a puppy mill she tried to justify it as she was "saving" a puppy mill puppy. More like "perpetuating"!

I realize that there are some very competent people on this site who work their dogs and breed them for certain characteristics and I don't object to people with a clear goal and understanding of the breed producing a litter with a purpose. But I do object STRONGLY to anyone who breeds for "fun and profit" rather than the betterment of the breed.

My dogs are pets. Every dog I've ever owned was a pet and was adopted from a rescue/shelter/pound. There are too many perfectly good dogs being put down every day because of careless irresponsible breeders and owners. And again, I know this is a pitbull forum and you all are breed fans. I got Maggie, my staffie/pit whatever she is cause she was a dog I connected with at the shelter. But, my breed of choice was and still is Rhodesian Ridgebacks. I don't currently have one cause I couldn't find one within a twelve hour drive after our RR passed away and we had room for another dog or two. And even though I really, really wanted another Ridgeback I couldn't justify buying a puppy (to be a house pet) from a breeder and condemning another shelter dog to death.

When you pay a backyard breeder for a puppy it doesn't matter what your personal reasons or justifications are - your money is just as green as any fools and you just encouraged them to keep breeding.
 
#14 · (Edited by Moderator)
See I agree with you on most parts here when looking at shelter vs BYB , but

" I couldn't justify buying a puppy (to be a house pet) from a breeder and condemning another shelter dog to death."

It does make me think those who chose to buy from a shelter for this reason well where do you think the majority of those puppys in shelters come from? So I dont agree with that statement persay but I do see your point and there are many valid reason to argue why to adopt shelter vs breeder and vice versa.
I know a couple people who would just dump dogs at the shelter that they cant sell , so makes me wonder if they cant sell pups but can dump them when they get to that "not so cute" age will they just go back to breed more and hope they can sell more this time around I think they will. So it seems to me to be a kinda vicious circle that doesnt end with these millers.
 
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#11 ·
I think its hurting as well, but to reporting the breeder, do you think anything would realistically happen? especially if they have been doing it for a while already, I am sure they would maybe get a ticket but would they be stopped? I don't have experience to know, but it seems like they would be able to correct the situation short term to get the heat off them, then continue to profit.
 
#12 ·
IMO, if you find a pup in a bad situation you should not buy it.

above everything else every puppy no matter where it comes from should be updated on vacc's and wormings and also be healthy otherwise....

I would also like the to see a pup already socialized, pups should be ready for the new home so the owners are not "behind" of the process....
 
#17 ·
In general, are you helping? No. One side of the argument is that buying a puppy or saving a puppy from a BYB encourages the breeder to produce more puppies, thus, only adding to the problem.

But, are you helping on a small scale? Yes. You are saving one pup, but possibly damning dozens more. So, are you helping? Yes. Are you also causing more damage? Yes.

I think that a lot of people love their own dogs more than the breed itself. They justify that love by arguing that they were helping. Hey, one person can't save them all, right? But one person can save one dog. They do not have to look into the eyes of further litters. They do not have to think about the litter mates they left behind. They get to snuggle up with their pet at night, sleeping soundly because they feel like someone's savior. And in all reality, given the choice, they probably would not trade their one dog for the dozens that suffer after it.
 
#18 ·
Good topic. I'd say that the small scale helping that smokey joe refers to is outweighed by the potential harm that supporting BYBs does.

I subscribe to the theory that it does encourage further breeding because, hey, it was so easy to sell all those pups, lets do that again when she comes into season the next time!

Again, this is not to judge anyone who has done so (and plenty have) because obviously it's hard to ignore an animal's suffering and think of the bigger picture. If you could get the dog/dogs out of the situation without paying the miller for it then that's all well and good. Unfortunately, millers and BYBs know how to prey on people's emotions to get them for a quick buck and the cycle begins again.
 
#19 ·
The way a man keeps his yard shows a lot about how he cares for his pups. If a man doesn't value his yard than he places little value on his breeding program and the animals he feeds. I don't feel sorry when I see a worthless pet who was bred out of sheer ignorance. What I feel is what a shame another poorly bred example or mutt with an unproven history that will take up another spot in a shelter and will eventually be put down if no one adopts it. While those worthless dogs are sitting in shelters these same clueless owner's are seeking out pup's rapidly from Byb's and have no idea they are supporting these breeder's enabling them to continue peddling off more worthless pets on craigslist, newspaper's, websites, and even dog bulletin forums.
 
#21 ·
Might I ask why you would cull all of them ? When they could be spayed or neutred and takin care of until the end of there lives .. ? So you save them from the BYB and then kill them is that right .. makes alot of sense since the will never be breeders because they are fixed .. and could really be a great pet for someone who knows what there dealing with ..?

and thank you once again for putting down my animals .. it really wants people to stay on this forum .. lol my dog may be a mutt but shes saved my life and my nephews so im pretty sure she is not worthless .. =]
 
#23 ·
I would cull them because they come from unproven dog's therefore you do not know what is behind those dogs temperament/health wise If your breeding dogs you need to know what your breeding. Breeding blindly is very dangerous and careless. If one of those pups matures and ends up being Human Aggressive because they come from a long line of human aggressive dogs and those traits have been passed along regardless if the pup ends up in a pet home or not it still doesn't change the unstable/unknown genetics behind said pup. Culling should be a huge part of any animal breeder's program. If breeder's culled accordingly than there wouldn't be such a mass production of unsound animals in the world unfortunately back yard breeder's don't breed to produce better quality animals they breed to peddle animals for money so they have no idea what kind of dogs they are producing. Our breed can't
afford anymore accident's or mishaps. Intentions while may be good often lead the pathway to ****. There are good breeder's out there who strive to produce top quality animals these are the people I support and will buy my dogs from.
 
#24 ·
okay thank you for responding calmly . And while yes I do understand this .. I can totally understand where you are coming from because I have seen the product of back yard breeders .. and while I wish I could send each and everyone of them where they belong I cant .. but when it comes to the point of them not having a purpose because they are not titled that is not always true .. Izzo has a very profound purpose in my life that I haven't yet felt comfortable enough to share with anyone until rite now because it seems relevant .. I suffer from Afib and Izzo can detect my heart rate dropping or increasing .. She has saved my life numerous times and also my nephews by not allowing me to drive when she knew I had a oncoming episode coming .. so would you call that worthless ?
 
#27 · (Edited)
Izzo when I say worthless I don't mean to offend you for choosing to rescue. I am speaking strictly off the fact that I personally am not willing to gamble with a dog who I can't see a proven history on. I need to know where said dog comes from and what the dog's behind said dog are all about. I love this breed very much and unfortunately many of these attacks that take place are often by dog's who came from unknown linage the owner got the dog without having a clue as to where that dog comes from and what the parent's were like . Whenever your dealing with unknown's you are clearly stepping out on faith and taking a chance or a risk hoping that the pup you got will grow up to not have any issues. I have 2 children and the breed is being banned in mass numbers across the world. So you see our breed has very little room to have any accidents happen. I love the freedom and the right to still be able to own APBT's therefore I am not willing to gamble on them by taking on a mix that appears to have APBT blood in it and if that dog does anything to harm anyone the whole breed will suffer for it because my actions effect many other's not just me and my dogs. You took the chance and from the sounds of it that worked out for you and your situation. I personally am just not willing to take that chance I would rather spend my money on a dog who comes from a long proven history of good dogs bred to the highest standards set for the breed.
 
#35 ·
Wow! Some very strong opinions. We rescue, that doesn't make us any better or any worse than anyone else, but that is our choice. Even getting a pup or dog from a well established breeder doesn't guarantee (sp) no problems it hopefully stacks the deck in favor of that dog. Nor does getting a dog from the shelter/rescue guarantee(sp) a mistake.

After the loss of Tia we were shoved into a position to take a foster out of a real crappy situation-yes, I feel we did "save" her- do I feel bad for opening our home? No, but do I wish things for this pup would have started out better? Heck yeah! Still, things come into our life as we need them, and I for one know this pup needed us and we need her.
Will we formally adopt her? That remains to be seen. Most likely... yes and I think we will be better for it.

A hard fact of life is...Alot of people don't see ANY dog as just pets, they do make money off them- they have became a chattal-livestock. Everything has been sanitized to the point that the shelter system is used as culling. The BYBs out there don't have to get their hands bloody and so they don't see anything wrong with what they're doing. I hate it, but I guess that's what people like me are for- I, and people like me, come along and clean up the broken, beaten, and abused lives. We shake our heads, wipe away our tears, and keep on doing what we think is right for that situation. It's not glamorous and there's times I would like to have that dog without health issues, etc. but I sleep well at night. We've been very blessed with the dogs we've brought into our house, and we've been doing this a very, very long time.

Sitting on the fence... I think everyone here has made valid points and passion is just that...passion! Even if it's a mix, bandog, shelter dog, gamebred, petbull We lov'em and just like our kids, we don't want anybody talking smack about them- right or wrong.
 
#38 ·
Wow! Some very strong opinions. We rescue, that doesn't make us any better or any worse than anyone else, but that is our choice. Even getting a pup or dog from a well established breeder doesn't guarantee (sp) no problems it hopefully stacks the deck in favor of that dog. Nor does getting a dog from the shelter/rescue guarantee(sp) a mistake.

After the loss of Tia we were shoved into a position to take a foster out of a real crappy situation-yes, I feel we did "save" her- do I feel bad for opening our home? No, but do I wish things for this pup would have started out better? Heck yeah! Still, things come into our life as we need them, and I for one know this pup needed us and we need her.
Will we formally adopt her? That remains to be seen. Most likely... yes and I think we will be better for it.

A hard fact of life is...Alot of people don't see ANY dog as just pets, they do make money off them- they have became a chattal-livestock. Everything has been sanitized to the point that the shelter system is used as culling. The BYBs out there don't have to get their hands bloody and so they don't see anything wrong with what they're doing. I hate it, but I guess that's what people like me are for- I, and people like me, come along and clean up the broken, beaten, and abused lives. We shake our heads, wipe away our tears, and keep on doing what we think is right for that situation. It's not glamorous and there's times I would like to have that dog without health issues, etc. but I sleep well at night. We've been very blessed with the dogs we've brought into our house, and we've been doing this a very, very long time.

Sitting on the fence... I think everyone here has made valid points and passion is just that...passion! Even if it's a mix, bandog, shelter dog, gamebred, petbull We lov'em and just like our kids, we don't want anybody talking smack about them- right or wrong.
See thats good though I think , you went through a shelter to get this dog right? Not the miller or BYB'r .

I received 4 rescues last night that we are fostering unil they have a clean bill of health { so the comment someone made about not bringing sick dogs home when we have dogs I guess we broke that rule lol, but they are quarantined and seperate from our own house dogs} . I dont completely know there story I know bits and peices from what was relayed back to me and luckly the guy surrendered them with papers so we even know there pedigree.
I can see Sadies and KM's point about culling and how it would manage the problems our society faces these days with all these loose dogs but its not something I cold see me doing without a just cause. medical, tempermental ect there would have to be a reason for me to take those measures, maybe Im weak at heart I dont know.
I also agree with the post way above who asked if there spca would even do anything if called, thats a valid argument too. We called the SPCA on a guy who kept his horse on the property behind our house years ago he would turn her out in the construction feild with nails all over she even got one in the frog one day too and ended up infected, he never fed or watered her we found her bucket of water frozen solid one day. the SPCA came and because he had food there { wasnt in the stall was just in the feed room} they couldnt do anything. But then on the same note if you dont call then there is no chance of help for these animals. So really nothing to lose by calling and reporting them right?
I would personally rather see alot of these BYB'r dogs go through a shelter or rescue atleast there is usually some sort of home screening right? the breeders of these pups could realy care less who and where they end up. IMO If you buy a dog and they dont even bother to ask for contact info , address, look into you a bit , refrences and least of all contact you throughout your dogs life then you have not found the right breeder. The proper breeders will care about there pups weather 4 weeks old or 14 years old.
 
#36 ·
this turned into a good thread sadie km wonderful posting i am all for culling and i agree with sadie on the shelters i wish we dident have any and ny strays if no owner would be pts it would solve alot of the problems we face as owners of this breed well responsible owners witht technology and microchipping these days if you lost your dog and it was chipped they would have better ods of getting ahold of you in an alotted amout of time before the animal is put to sleep. Im sure this will stir some controversey but thats ok, but if you think about it there would be no dogs running the streets pits or not it would definatly make people think twice befor gtting any dog makin responsible owners imo
 
#39 ·
Yeah that's kind of my point the hard cold reality is regardless of wether these dogs are good or bad animals ending up at these shelters 99% of them are a result of back yard breedings so let's just be honest these animals were not bred to the highest standards by any means and many of them will have problems of some sort. Also I have never bought a dog from a man who didn't make a point to tell me please if anything happens and you can no longer care for the dog please return it to my yard and I will even buy the dog back! A good breeder will always take his dogs back should something happen where you can no longer care for that animal these guys place value on what they breed so they would never want the dog to go anywhere else but back to the yard it came from.
 
#40 ·
^ Home screening (at least in areas i've lived in GA, SC, NC, VA) where i have spoken to people and even volunteered off and on... HSUS is VERY slack about screening.. Majority of the time someone comes in says they want _____ dog, fill out some paper work, pay, leave with dog. In fact i have heard plenty of stories where the HSUS was supposed to S/N prior to adopting but failed to do so because of overpopulation, they just wanted to make sure the pups/dogs got out before they had to be PTS.

Rescue's generally do a better job at it but not all do. If i were to ever adopt id go through a rescue with a reputable reputation before i stepped foot in a HSUS or pound.

Many (HSUS) don't health test, temperament test, etc.. They are the good guys right?? Still a business at the end of the day.. Now i am not saying all are bad and shameful, i'm sure there are many out there that do the best they can with what they have to work with.. But from my experience its not as "glorious" as the big picture appears to be.
 
#41 ·
You know I walked through a shelter in my home town last year and there was this one dog that was an obvious pit mix I approached the dog and it started growling and snapping at me! These other owner's were trying to adopt this dog out and these idiots up at the pound were seriously going to allow this dog to be adopted. I told the couple do not take that dog that the dog shouldn't even be up for adoption that it should be PTS! They had a child with them as well I mean you couldn't even pet this dog so I was in disbelief as to why they would even allow this dog to be adopted out. SMFH!
 
#42 ·
Its a fad to adopt, not the only reason people do but majority..Buy from a breeder you are evil, adopt you are golden! Unless you are buying a cute goldendoodle..you are still golden because thats accepted as well.

Because its a fad people dont THINK before they get a dog, they probably had little sense to start with but because its cool and "hip" they lose all common sense and say its a cute dog lets get it! Nevermind what they are walking into..
 
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#43 ·
yes Km I agree I would rather go through a rescue then the HSUS as well , they broke down there spendings tothe public last year and was amazed at the donations sent in to them majority of it didnt even go to the animals alot of people were pretty PO'd , I think HSUS is just as bad as some of the breeders where its all about $$$ and not so much about the dogs. I dont know about there but up here they are a bit bias against our breed of choice and more often then not will PTS any bulldog breed, the rescues specifically for this breed are a much better option they even try and take them fromt he shelters and bring them to there rescue. People who know the breed and know how to properly screen for the right homes. The only issue with that are the people who dont qualify or suit this breed will always find a way to get what they want , there is always some other person money hungry enough to sell them a dog.
 
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#44 ·
:goodpost: Hit the nail on the head angelbaby.. All companies, corporations, etc are in it for profit. No matter what cause or what the "foundation" stands for at the end of the day no profit cant keep the doors open. And it just so happens HSUS as a whole is a multi - billion dollar industry.. Who would have thought since they all seem to be broke, no funds, etc.. Its something along the lines of for every $10 they get, less than $2.00 goes towards anything notable. Now not ALL are like this but i'm speaking of the industry as one, not individual cases..

Its pretty much the same every where for the most part, if it looks like a bulldog or "pit" than its chances are usually cut in third. Is it sad? Absolutely. Good dogs die every day, bad dogs get adopted every day.. Some bad die some good get homes.. But its justified because they don't have the "funds"..

The HSUS here, a friend of mine was a vet there making $9.00 an hr. Only stayed as long as she did because she felt like if someone was knowledgable there it would make a difference.. It didn't unfortunately.. And to top it off last year she brought home around $28,000, the others made any where from nothing (volunteer) to less than $12,000 a year.. The head lady in charge of multiple ones in the area of the state? Six figures. Meanwhile you hear "give us money all these animals are sick, overpopulated, etc" we need your help! Hmm...

They did just finish their new facility that costed in the neighborhood of $18 million to build, its nice no doubt.. Built with charity money.. Of course.. Now you tell me whats wrong with this picture? Don't fool yourself, its not isolated..
 
#45 ·
IMO I think even though they are taking that puppy away from that mill, they are just setting others up to live in that condition. By leave the puppy there it is sacrificing one puppy to save one other or maybe even thousands. I know first time buyers go in to these places and it rips them apart inside to leave the puppy there, but it maybe for the best in the long run for generations to come.

Though, if they really want to help puppies from puppy mills, go to a local pound or keep listening for a puppy mill bust that animal control took care of and adopt a puppy. Not only is it cheaper, but its truly making a difference
 
#46 · (Edited)
BSL will cull 4 U

IMO there are a lot of people out there that just want a pet and may feel a pit bull is for them. Whether they are right or wrong, I don't know but they will take the easiest route to get their "pet bull".......BYB. It's quick & cheaper. Most people wont do research so may not know the signs or questions to ask a breeder either good or bad. Example: I have a young troop that just purchased a "blue nose pit bull" (I know it's just color...roll with it) on craigslist. He lives in an apartment that doesn't allow pets over 25lbs. I asked him why did he get the dog he said, "I never had a dog and wanted one so I saw her & wanted her. He didn't ask about papers, temperament, or nothing....exchanged the cash, took the dog and left. He and his wife now are trying to find a new place because a neighbor dime'd them out to the management.

I believe if people didn't buy from BYB they would eventually move on to some other "hustle". Either way you look at it....BYB or shelter..dogs are going to lose their life. People have good intentions but may be doing more damage than good by acquiring sick dogs. That's why we need sites like this one to help educate. Ignorance is a disease & education is the antidote.

At the end of the day, regardless of 100% pure & papered or 50/50 mixed & unknown, stray or loose pet, the BSL doesn't care if it came from a reputable breeder, BYB or if it fell from the sky.... the BSL will "CULL" it if it resembles a "pit bull".

This is really a good topic.

 
#47 ·
People realize that some people spend money at a reputable breeder and then something happens (kid is now allergic, had to move, broke your back and can't walk and care for the dog) lots of "reasons" people feel excuse them from the commitment they made. Embarrassment is why they do not go back to the breeder. They promised and joked about how terrible some owners could be and they would NEVER do that, so they don't want to go back on their word, and drop at a shelter thinking it would not get back to the breeder.

My cousin works at a shelter and she has done the due diligence on some if she can to research the lines when she is supplied with and will contact the breeder herself and the breeder's have almost ALWAYS taken the dogs back, as they had said they would to begin with.

My point is, no matter what the ped, BYB, opps litter, tons of these pups are killed. I feel saving a dog is saving a dog. Some people suck, even ones who are cleared and felt would be a good home. You can't win the war, just each battle. And if one dog is saved and loved and not abused and the owner is responsible, I think its a great thing. No matter what the bloodline or history is or isn't... Your dog gets lost and is not chipped, he is just a pit bull type dog to the person who finds him, its not like he remembered to grab his papers before he got lost. I know that's not the question from the OP, but it seems like people have gotten into a non papered vs. papered fight instead of puppy mill vs. reputable breeder.
 
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#48 ·
People realize that some people spend money at a reputable breeder and then something happens (kid is now allergic, had to move, broke your back and can't walk and care for the dog) lots of "reasons" people feel excuse them from the commitment they made. Embarrassment is why they do not go back to the breeder. They promised and joked about how terrible some owners could be and they would NEVER do that, so they don't want to go back on their word, and drop at a shelter thinking it would not get back to the breeder.

My cousin works at a shelter and she has done the due diligence on some if she can to research the lines when she is supplied with and will contact the breeder herself and the breeder's have almost ALWAYS taken the dogs back, as they had said they would to begin with.

My point is, no matter what the ped, BYB, opps litter, tons of these pups are killed. I feel saving a dog is saving a dog. Some people suck, even ones who are cleared and felt would be a good home. You can't win the war, just each battle. And if one dog is saved and loved and not abused and the owner is responsible, I think its a great thing. No matter what the bloodline or history is or isn't... Your dog gets lost and is not chipped, he is just a pit bull type dog to the person who finds him, its not like he remembered to grab his papers before he got lost. I know that's not the question from the OP, but it seems like people have gotten into a non papered vs. papered fight instead of puppy mill vs. reputable breeder.
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#50 ·
It was really never intended to be papers vs shelter , there are many byb and puppy milled dogs that dont have papers or have hung papers , it was more BYB/mills vs shelters or better yet why not to buy from a BYB and the consiquences{sp} it costs more puppys later on . This was more to bring the awareness to those just getting into this breed or just looking for there 1st dog. I know I made mistakes when buying my girl and think alot of those people out there probably are making the same. Hopefully this thread can bring some valid points to them on why to look for a good breeder and or a shelter and what they can do if along the way they run into one of these horrible places. I think there have been valid points though made in this thread on every aspect of getting a new dog whether shelter or breeder. What one persons view on a dog doesnt make or break that dog cause the next person may view it completely different , it was never to say a papered dog is worth more then a non papered one, in some eyes this may be true but to someone who loves there dog regardless it means nothing. I hope though thatthis does help someone who finds themselves in this situation and thinking well if I buy this poor pup it will save him and maybe think about all the valid reasons for not buying that pup as hard as it may be when you have the pup in your arms and looking in those sad eyes.
 
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