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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This subject confuses me so badly.The more I read and research the more confused I am.So,would you be nice enough to firmly state your opinion on the subject and answer few questions,I want to know for sure and without any doubt why my dogs are or aren't pitbulls,and what kind of dogs should I call a pitbull.
I want to be sure when someone asks me or says something ignorant I know the real true and I'm not adding to the misconception that was this breeds undoing in the first place.

1.I've read several times "The term Pit Bull is used in reference to multiple breeds of dogs. Namely, the American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier and Staffordshire Bull Terrier, as well as any crosses between the three."
Is this true?Especially the part about the mixes?

2.I was convinced that the only pitbull is the APBT who are smaller and quite a bit different head wise compared to what is considered pit today(xl bullies and similar).Is this true?

3.Is it true that the Amstaff derived from APBT and were intended for dog shows,unlike APBT who were bred for dog fighting?If this happens to be true,can Amstaff be considered a Pitbull and if they can,why the heck are they called differently?

4.Why are the dogs we call purebred(blue pits with valid papers for example)considered purebred when they aren't APBT(physically when I see them and compare them)?

5.What is stated in "valid papers" ?That the puppy derived from who? APBT,Amstaff,staffordshire bull terrier or just a pitbull?


I apologize if I'm asking nonsenses but to this date I have no freaking idea who is who in this breeds world.Thank you for patiently answering all of this.
 

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Pit bull can be a loose term to describe any bully breed whether apbt, american bully, dogo, boxers, am staffs, staffy bulls ect ect .... All of thee dogs often get lumped into the pit bull category and when it comes to BSL all will be viewed the same.

There is only 1 american pit bull terrier though , alot of people do advertise and call there american bullys apbt's though due to lack of knowledge and believing that is what they have due to ADBA, UKC papers stating so. Alot of people continue to register there american bullys with these registry's even though they do not fit the standard of the APBT , this adding confusion to those who they sell too when they don't take the time out to educate buyers as to what they are actually buying.
The true pit bull terrier is a smaller dog then alot of the bullys you see today , they are leaner, lighter, built more to be athletic and work. To learn more about the differences in the breeds check out the bloodline section you can read up on the apbt and the bully 101 section is great to get more info on the bully lines and standards.
 

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I got my first pit bull on bird road and 80 ave. I got it home, and it tore the hind end outta our big old Lab, twice it's size. A few months later some power lineman were behind our house and the saw the red dog. And they took A shine to her. They told me that was A fine looking game dog.
Well, I just looked stupid like I guess, cause they just laughed their butts off at my expression.
I asked them what A game dog was and they told me that they were pit bulls. So,I took that as gospel. It was obvious to them by appearance I wasnt PO-lice s they invited meout to their property in the Redlands of Miami. An area of broken up farmland 5-20 acres. They had 40 dogs at least out there. A box, treadmill, round table, spring pole and A shed with anything you could imagine for health.
I was taught from them and the old guys in nc what A game pit bull was, what it did, why, where it came from, progency and the way they were selectively bred. Looking for attributes passed from the male and female and also pass through progency testing. How the males or females attributes are delivered separately or combined. Alot ofpeople look at only attributes singularly, hard mouth, stifle dog, long/short wind, different physical attributes etc. I was taught breeding and pup raising, schooling, testing, 2 dog, 3 dog, old dog, old hard mouth dog with his hangers missing that would work A young dog and not damage it's spirit.
A pit bull is the only dog actually capable to survive what it is put through. I was taught that they were the only one. With the musculature, physique, stamina, tenacity, and all around virile ability.
This is what makes them superior. That's why some pit bull owners are as arrogantly prideful about them, I know I am.
You can mix the blood, you can think you've got something comparative to the pit bull, it might look like one, A bit wider, and heavier, what I refer to as sloppier, it IS NOT, and no where measurably near what A pit bull is.
You can ask most pits to prove themselves and they will. Just put them in the right hands.
The pit bull has never failed us , we fail the pit bull.
This is my experience.
 

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I'm the blue dragon!
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This is a very hard to grasp subject for people. Like anglebaby said, the term "pit bull" is used loosely and can mean any of many bully type breeds. Its a generic name like shepard, retreiver, herding dog, ankle biter and anything else we call types of dogs. The American Staff is sort of a show version of the APBT but lines have changed a lot and AKC doesn't recognize the APBT or the AmBully. And vise versa UKC and ADBA only recognize the APBT and not the AmStaff or AmBully. As far as I know the most reputable kennel club that recognizes the AmBully is the ABKC.

I was trying to explain these same questions to one of my BFs coworkers son. And its hard to explain. The name on the papers doesn't mean anything. Its the bloodlines that make the type of dog. A redboy/jocko dog is not gunna look the same or be the same as a RE/Gotti dog or greyline/watchdog (I don't know amstaff lines, I tried) and SBT is a completely different standard/structure.
 

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Work them Pet Bulls!
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Pit bull is actually a generic term used to describe any dog with short hair, big head, and muscles......at least that is how they are described around here in Boston. They all pretty much get lumped together under one. The educated know the difference between these dogs.....I know what a bull terrier, staffordshire terrier, staffordshire bull terrier look like and I of course know what a real APBT looks like. to the general public though it's just a "pit bull" :-/
 

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The reason why I try to stay away from accepting the term pit bull to mean multiple breeds is because so many dogs get lumped into a category and you really have no clue what breed of dog it really is. You can not judge based on looks, a vet or a dog expert can ONLY GUESS what a dog is based off of looks. The places that accept pit bull to encompass multiple breeds are why there is so much BSL and people jumping to ban the so called pit bull type dogs. It took me a while to grasp and understand why its so important.

One way I realized how important to it was when I read the report on dog fatalities in 2010. There were 33 fatalities and 30 were reported by the media and authorities initially as a pit bull. After the investigation was concluded only 2 were in fact a pit bull. (and FYI all 33 dogs were not treated as pets and all were intact) The APBT, aka pit bull, makes up 5% of TOTAL dogs. By lumping ALL dogs into the category pit bull, 2010 fatality rates go from 3% (which is a fact) to 90% which is what fuels hate sites that like to compare actual number like The APBT is 5% of dogs and is responsible for 90% fatalities. By allowing the public perception to incorrectly ACCEPT the TERM pit bull, any dog with a blocky head that anyone deems to be one could be at risk.

By lumping TONS of random dogs and adding numbers together ANY breed could be at risk. The APBT head is very dominate and even if the dog is 1% APBT they may have a blocky head and a short coat. DNA tests are still a joke, IMO, but I am no geneticist. lol AND the ones in this study used blood which is way more realistic IMO that saliva.



I think we, as owners, need to take the time to explain why our dogs are mutts or bull dogs whenever we can. Now I know its not realistic in all cases and when people drive by me on the street and scream "nice pit bull" I don't yell after them HE ISN'T A PIT BULL lol If we cant convince the owners how bad it is to accept pit bull as a generic term, then how are we gonna convince people who DON'T own them and DON'T know anything but what gets reported as a pit bull, is in fact a pit bull.

Also, since there are so many different BYB dogs out there who do not breed for temperament I am willing to bet MOST attacks that caused BSL to pop up in MANY MANY places were NOT as result from the American Pit Bull Terrier. That is why its so harmful to accept pit bull. I used to fight it. I used to think hey its better to educate how great they all are and since people call them it, why not, just accept it. When I look at the numbers and thought about it, it just damages. Accepting a dog being called a pit bull that is an AmBully, AmStaff, Dogo, mastiff or tons of other breeds including good ol fashioned mutts is just not correct.
 

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American Pit Bull Terrier - Matching Bulldog, Pit Bulldog, Pit Dog.. Designed, developed and perfected for the purpose of matching. Bar none the most stable, sound animal in the k9 world. MANY other dog breeds owe its existence, wind, gameness, functions and soundness back to the APBT.. Also can be referred to as a Bulldog..

Bulldog - Can be a lose term as well, generalization of a "Pit - Like" dog. Can also be used to describe the APBT..

American Staffordshire Terrier - Genetic foundation one of the same as the APBT, used to be performance and show.. Now just a show dog.. The reason for existence has always been those who wanted a Bulldog for the show ring, no need for gameness to be instilled thus bred away entirely from the [] and replaced with the show ring.

American Bully - Some claim to be AST/APBT as foundation, regardless of what you believe these dogs are all over.. Some yards have introduced English Bulldog, Mastiff, Bull Terrier, etc.. Larger boned, bred as a companion and show dog.. Much like the AST in terms of function and original designed purpose, far different in appearance and over all consistency.

Function says it all, plenty argue all the time.. However, if you have a traditional Bulldog being used as a catch dog as in this country dog matching is illegal, i would still consider it an APBT/Bulldog.. After all, even though this wasn't the modernized purpose that has been instilled, it is an excelling purpose in which virtually all traits of which is carried by the dog can be utilized. Can't cur half way through with game like mountain lions, coyote, wolfs, deer, whopper ass boar, etc..

If you have a dog that is that of APBT bloodline, however used as a show dog and lets say WP.. What is the real difference between this animal and the old performance ASTs or even some modern ASTs? After all, that is why the breed exists and separated itself from the beginning. Just because a dog is registered as such, doesn't amount much to me. After all, dogs are mis-registered often it isn't anything new.

I stick to the core of why we have different breeds designed for different functions.
 

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Croblondie does that help or make it more confusing for you? lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Croblondie does that help or make it more confusing for you? lol
:cool:

Oh who am I kidding,I'm freaking lost :flush:!
:D

So,the only pitbull is the APBT.Any bully like dog can be considered pitbull which is completely wrong.The only way to know if dog is a pitbull is to have valid papers.Correct me if I'm wrong.

The subject concerning "valid papers" and what is in them(and how come some dogs are considered pitbulls in lineage and do not resemble true APBT at all)is still mystery to me?

Excuse me for repeating myself again,but this part confuses me soo badly.
How is the dog below considered registered pitbull with valid papers when he does not resemble Pete in any way(not color wise,I know it's not important for the most part)?

Taken from google images,was written that he's registered with ADBA,may be false

And Pete,beside him

I hope you get my question,if not,I'll try to be more clear,just ask.
 

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English Dogge Yard
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:cool:

Oh who am I kidding,I'm freaking lost :flush:!
:D

So,the only pitbull is the APBT.Any bully like dog can be considered pitbull which is completely wrong.The only way to know if dog is a pitbull is to have valid papers.Correct me if I'm wrong.

The subject concerning "valid papers" and what is in them(and how come some dogs are considered pitbulls in lineage and do not resemble true APBT at all)is still mystery to me?


Excuse me for repeating myself again,but this part confuses me soo badly.
How is the dog below considered registered pitbull with valid papers when he does not resemble Pete in any way(not color wise,I know it's not important for the most part)?

Taken from google images,was written that he's registered with ADBA,may be false

And Pete,beside him

I hope you get my question,if not,I'll try to be more clear,just ask.
Function says it all, plenty argue all the time.. However, if you have a traditional Bulldog being used as a catch dog as in this country dog matching is illegal, i would still consider it an APBT/Bulldog.. After all, even though this wasn't the modernized purpose that has been instilled, it is an excelling purpose in which virtually all traits of which is carried by the dog can be utilized. Can't cur half way through with game like mountain lions, coyote, wolfs, deer, whopper ass boar, etc..

If you have a dog that is that of APBT bloodline, however used as a show dog and lets say WP.. What is the real difference between this animal and the old performance ASTs or even some modern ASTs? After all, that is why the breed exists and separated itself from the beginning. Just because a dog is registered as such, doesn't amount much to me. After all, dogs are mis-registered often it isn't anything new.

I stick to the core of why we have different breeds designed for different functions.
Bloodline says what the dogs heritage and foundation of genetics is.

Papers tell you what you already know, rendered useless unless your showing or participating in registry type of events. (which is great for a show dog) Can be useful towards breeding, however handwritten peds is still a form of pedigree that doesn't require to be sent off to a registry.

Function defines the individual animal and validates all you need to know. A pedigree, keen knowledge on not only whats in the history but the yard, the genes instilled all amounts to what the dog should be. The proof is in the puddin', in this case, the function of which is used for.
 
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I've said it before and I'll say it till your ears bleed, The Only "Pit Bull" is the American pit Bull Terrier. The term shoudn't be used for any other breed.
Your Shelter Mutt that "Looks like a Pit" is not a Pit Bull.
Your American Bulldog is not a Pit Bull.
Your AKC Registered American Staffordshire Terrier or Staffordshire Bull Terrier is not a Pit Bull.
Your ABKC Registered American Bully is not a pit Bull.
and Last but not least, your Pit Bull mix is not A Pit bull any more than a Lab mix is a Labrador Retriever.
The only breed that SHOULD be called a Pit Bull is the APBT. This is simply a fact. It is not a General Term like "Retriever" or "Shepherd". It is a nickname for the APBT. Nothing more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I've said it before and I'll say it till your ears bleed, The Only "Pit Bull" is the American pit Bull Terrier. The term shoudn't be used for any other breed.
Your Shelter Mutt that "Looks like a Pit" is not a Pit Bull.
Your American Bulldog is not a Pit Bull.
Your AKC Registered American Staffordshire Terrier or Staffordshire Bull Terrier is not a Pit Bull.
Your ABKC Registered American Bully is not a pit Bull.
and Last but not least, your Pit Bull mix is not A Pit bull any more than a Lab mix is a Labrador Retriever.
The only breed that SHOULD be called a Pit Bull is the APBT. This is simply a fact. It is not a General Term like "Retriever" or "Shepherd". It is a nickname for the APBT. Nothing more.
What you said is what I thought and was sure about to begin with until I got confused with so many "registered" pitbulls who don't look nothing like the APBT.It's just that I didn't even find an online pitbull breeder whose dogs look anything like the apbt below.That is why I thought I was wrong.And i'm still confused,although I'd like to thank KMdogs for patience.However,I didn't understand one freaking term.Soo frustrating.
 

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I'm the blue dragon!
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I've said it before and I'll say it till your ears bleed, The Only "Pit Bull" is the American pit Bull Terrier. The term shoudn't be used for any other breed.
Your Shelter Mutt that "Looks like a Pit" is not a Pit Bull.
Your American Bulldog is not a Pit Bull.
Your AKC Registered American Staffordshire Terrier or Staffordshire Bull Terrier is not a Pit Bull.
Your ABKC Registered American Bully is not a pit Bull.
and Last but not least, your Pit Bull mix is not A Pit bull any more than a Lab mix is a Labrador Retriever.
The only breed that SHOULD be called a Pit Bull is the APBT. This is simply a fact. It is not a General Term like "Retriever" or "Shepherd". It is a nickname for the APBT. Nothing more.
That's how it should be. But we don't live in "should" land. We live in the real world and in the real world the media and general public has changed the name Pit Bull from a nick name for the APBT into a general term for all bully breeds.

I've spent the last week on FB digging up stolen images from the Save the Great Pitbull page that was scamming people. And I noticed that to people like that and thousands of people who are ignorant or just don't care, all AmBullies, APBTs, ASTs, SBTs, AmBulldogs, Dogos, Corsos, Presas and mixes are pit bulls to them.
 

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Double post... oops
 

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OK, Someone needs to step up here cause this is also where I get confused and like to hear it again myself, lol.

What I think you are asking is how can so many dogs be dual registered as APBT or AmStaff? Tons of American Bully's were created with AmStaff blood in their lines and can be registered in the AKC (American Kennel Club). There are also some AmBully's who have APBT somewhere in their lines and can be registered as UKC (United Kennel Club). Both of those dogs can register with the ABKC (American Bully Kennel Club) and the UKC or AKC depending if it was AMStaff or APBT foundation dogs in their peds.

Now as KM was saying, it really comes down to purpose. I have seen conversations about Show APBT and people do not think they are APBT just because they are being shown, hence AmStaff. To me, each breed looks different. Since many animals take after grandparents or great grandparents, as the dog grows and matures you can decide if you think your dog will do well showing in UKC or ABKC, etc. So even though the dogs peds or registered, it really comes down to function and purpose. and you need to realize not everyone subscribes to this rational, hence a gazillion AmBully breeders pimping pit bulls...

Sorry if I screwed that up, and I hope someone can jump on and correct me.

Did I make it worse? lol
 

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OK, Someone needs to step up here cause this is also where I get confused and like to hear it again myself, lol.

What I think you are asking is how can so many dogs be dual registered as APBT or AmStaff? Tons of American Bully's were created with AmStaff blood in their lines and can be registered in the AKC (American Kennel Club). There are also some AmBully's who have APBT somewhere in their lines and can be registered as UKC (United Kennel Club). Both of those dogs can register with the ABKC (American Bully Kennel Club) and the UKC or AKC depending if it was AMStaff or APBT foundation dogs in their peds.

Now as KM was saying, it really comes down to purpose. I have seen conversations about Show APBT and people do not think they are APBT just because they are being shown, hence AmStaff. To me, each breed looks different. Since many animals take after grandparents or great grandparents, as the dog grows and matures you can decide if you think your dog will do well showing in UKC or ABKC, etc. So even though the dogs peds or registered, it really comes down to function and purpose. and you need to realize not everyone subscribes to this rational, hence a gazillion AmBully breeders pimping pit bulls...

Sorry if I screwed that up, and I hope someone can jump on and correct me.

Did I make it worse? lol
It really boils down to this. The APBT has been plagiarized, diluted and polluted. Some doing it don't care as they are capitalizing on the pit for financial gains. Those that have these dogs are so stupidly proud of their generic turd cutter on the end of the leash, and could care less the truth.
It's all about false pride, exploitation and cashing in.
They can't even sex right. Their was A video of one of the sloppy overweight bullies that hurled his lunch while hog plowing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks Ames,this was really helpful!
So,basically,pitbulls are freakin rare.Bullies are flooding the shelters and fighting pits,and are being sold as pitbulls,or xxl or godzilaxxx or whatever sounds more hardcore.
Some of these bullies probably have apbt blood in them,but most don't,and are descendants and mixes of some molossoid breeds.
AST and SBT are rather easy to identify to me and can't be really called a pit in any way(except that they have pitbull in their blood),they are a bully type dog and that is about it.

If you guys find this to be universal truth,I think I finally got it,if don't,than oh well,here we go again :D.
 

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Thanks Ames,this was really helpful!
So,basically,pitbulls are freakin rare.Bullies are flooding the shelters and fighting pits,and are being sold as pitbulls,or xxl or godzilaxxx or whatever sounds more hardcore.
Some of these bullies probably have apbt blood in them,but most don't,and are descendants and mixes of some molossoid breeds.
AST and SBT are rather easy to identify to me and can't be really called a pit in any way(except that they have pitbull in their blood),they are a bully type dog and that is about it.

If you guys find this to be universal truth,I think I finally got it,if don't,than oh well,here we go again :D.
You can learn small bits here and there by asking online however if you truly want to understand and grasp fully, theres no replacement for experience. Go straight to the source; a mentor, read all you can, ask all you can, develop if anything a basic understanding of genetics and a basic understanding of pedigree.. Get your hands dirty, handle show stock, handle performance stock, handle a game bred dog and if you choose and have the opportunity to put your hands on a game dog,, thats all the knowledge you need to understand what is and isn't.

Your best bet is attempting to get in with some backwoods gents with their stock of catch dogs derived from APBTs.. Genetics are there, mentality is there..

You won't learn much of anything by a thread or 10,000 threads.. You might at least develop a relative understanding but you wont ever truly "know" until..

It takes years to grasp a keen understanding, eventually forgetting more than you know.
 
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