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Proud CGC Parent
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
don't exist as a breed?

:hammer::hammer:

Sometimes on other forums I'm confronted with such stupidity, lol.
 

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OCD Bullyologist
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All depends on perspective, but the Am Bully has its own registry thus it is now a recognized breed; however, facts seldom change what someone wants to believe.
 

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Ignorance is bliss I tell ya! I use to love fighting people...now I just smile and walk away. In the end you achieve better results...they will never want to be educated and you wont get frustrated.

I still have the sudden urge to slam a sledge hammer on their hand every time I hear stuff like that...thank god I dont act on those impulses anymore hahaha.
 

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Proud CGC Parent
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Well, you see, the bully thing I can understand. Very new breed trying to rise from the dirt of bad breeders and get towards a recognizable and consistent breed standard.

But the APBT/AST??? You can not tell me that a show AST is the same as a show APBT, LOL.
 

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GYPSY PAVING
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Well, you see, the bully thing I can understand. Very new breed trying to rise from the dirt of bad breeders and get towards a recognizable and consistent breed standard.

But the APBT/AST??? You can not tell me that a show AST is the same as a show APBT, LOL.
I'll Tell you what some of the Problem is from my point of Veiw. when i was working at the HS back in the Mid 90's I had just realized what a good breed pit's were. Thats when i rescued 2 (as ive told this story lready) At that time i bought 3 BOOKS and i still have them in a box somewhere. Razers Edge Throwin Knuckles was on the Cover of 1 and so was His Father. All the Books where Titled " The American Pitbull Terrier & American Staffershire Terrier". 1 Of them even had a Section on the Staffershire Terrier, wich i thought was the Cutest little Pack of muscles around.
I read the Books Over and Over trying to understand WHY the 2 breads Looked a Bit Different. In thes Book Amstaff's where the Boxyer of the 2, a bit shorter, and a Head that was more Squere IMO. Now thats not to say that it couldnt of just been the Bloodlines in the Amstaff's, as Im not a Expert...The Books Describe the 2 Breeds as THE SAME !! They staited that it's ONLY because of the Registry that they are called 2 Differnet Breeds. Until i Joined this Forum i was STILL under this Impression Even though I Own a Male AMSTAFF and can see with my Own Eyes he was nothing Like my Pure Bread Female Pit. NOW we have thrown another Similure breed into the Mix, " BULLY". I have Only heard of Bullies over the Past YR. Im sure they have been around Longer as i bought the books w/ Razor in the 90's, But Im in the Blacktop Business not Pitbull/Dog, so i havent followed. When I was Looking for a New PUP (Diamond) I googled The ASPCA's, HS in my surounding states. I saw Several Pit's and Bullies however Bully's Looked Nothin like the Pit's who Im familure with. I googled Bully's and Found IRONMAN PIT's as well as Others Claiming to breed XXL Bully Pit's... Well that CONFUSED the Heck out of me seeing that They look more like a Cross Between a Old English Bulldog and Possibly a Staffy head or like some Kind of Mastiff w/a Wringly Head. Well that turned me away, Them Calling them Pits and Me Thinking that they were now a MUT and also a Mut of Breeds I know nothing about. I did like the fact that they are said to be NON Animal Aggressive, But i wasn't lookin for a 13" high Bulldog. I was looking to replace TAYA which was a beautiful Loyal Pure APBT.
I now have Learned ( on this forum) That what I read was wrong and some of the Bully sites (breeders) are full of Dog Due) because they are accually advertizing Bully's as Pit/Mastiff on some Web pages....lol...To make a LONG story short, The Mass confusion is kinda funny, and it's here nore there to me sence i don't show the breed, I'm just a Guy lookin for a Good Companion ;) But thats my Veiw of why so many are Ignorant Including me, It's Kinda Like Politics i guess, They say and write about what they think will sell someone on somthing somtimes No matter if it's Been researched or Not. This is the Most Informative Forum ive ever been a Part of, and im glad i joined as to in the back of my mind i was still wondering about these things, lol...
 

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Proud CGC Parent
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The Books Describe the 2 Breeds as THE SAME !! They staited that it's ONLY because of the Registry that they are called 2 Differnet Breeds.
^ I'm surprised they said that. I don't understand how they can be the same when the AKC has had their books closed (and thus their bloodlines closed) to the APBT since 1976. IMO, too many generations have gone by for them to be the same. There are certain similarities yes, but they are different and will only get more different as time passes.
 

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GYPSY PAVING
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^ I'm surprised they said that. I don't understand how they can be the same when the AKC has had their books closed (and thus their bloodlines closed) to the APBT since 1976. IMO, too many generations have gone by for them to be the same. There are certain similarities yes, but they are different and will only get more different as time passes.
I agree, and also I think its funny that Throwin Knuckles was on the Cover of my First APBT Book Now that ive been Informed He's a Bully breed.
 

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Premium Member
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I agree, and also I think its funny that Throwin Knuckles was on the Cover of my First APBT Book Now that ive been Informed He's a Bully breed.
I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong but I think, Throwin Knuckles was actually an Amstaff. He was used as a foundation for RE bullies but he himself (despite being a Razor's Edge produced dog) was not one.
 

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None of them are breeds. Try telling that to the APBT breeders that have worked for over 100 years to better them, and to the Amstaff people who have changed alot about their dogs to make them their own, and while your there ask the bully crowd who are doing their very best to get their dogs to their own standard and stand on its own as a breed.


People tell me this all the time. Doesnt bother me, they dont have to own them. They are the people i have the very least amount of time for.
 

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Well, you see, the bully thing I can understand. Very new breed trying to rise from the dirt of bad breeders and get towards a recognizable and consistent breed standard.

But the APBT/AST??? You can not tell me that a show AST is the same as a show APBT, LOL.
 

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people don't understand or cope with something new very well so it takes time bullies are a very new breed no one is bashing bullies
 

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Premium Member
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^ I'm surprised they said that. I don't understand how they can be the same when the AKC has had their books closed (and thus their bloodlines closed) to the APBT since 1976. IMO, too many generations have gone by for them to be the same. There are certain similarities yes, but they are different and will only get more different as time passes.
Surprisingly allot of books you pick up at a lets say petsmart or other store like this say the same thing not stating differences. So it come as little sunrise that allot of people find it hard to understand. And even more get confused when people start talking about the game dog amstaff issues.
 

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Proud CGC Parent
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I wasn't bashing bullies, lol. I love a correct bully. But there are a lot of bad breeders out there that aren't breeding to standard, and those are the ones that people invariably buy as pets or as part of their breeding program because they don't know what a correct bully should look like. You guys are still getting your act together and because of that there's a lot of misinformation out there. You can't deny that.
 

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lol...okay entertain me...bully breeders aren't breeding to the standard...which breeders are you referring to...that you've actually seen their stock...or are we repeating what we've heard others say...
for every crappy bully breeder you can show me....i will match you a byb breeding off the apbt name...lol...cmon...don't make generalized statements like this unless your really ready to back them up...if you wanna play...lemme know :)
 

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are we doing the apbt vs. bully thing again. byb bully breeders advertise as apbt 99.99% of the time. majority of people on earth can't distinguish what a true apbt, when they think pitbull they are actually visualizing bullies, so yeah it's easy to believe some people don't recognize the bully as a breed despite the abkc recognizing them as their own breed, lets be realistic.
 

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I'll Tell you what some of the Problem is from my point of Veiw. when i was working at the HS back in the Mid 90's I had just realized what a good breed pit's were. Thats when i rescued 2 (as ive told this story lready) At that time i bought 3 BOOKS and i still have them in a box somewhere. Razers Edge Throwin Knuckles was on the Cover of 1 and so was His Father. All the Books where Titled " The American Pitbull Terrier & American Staffershire Terrier". 1 Of them even had a Section on the Staffershire Terrier, wich i thought was the Cutest little Pack of muscles around.
I read the Books Over and Over trying to understand WHY the 2 breads Looked a Bit Different. In thes Book Amstaff's where the Boxyer of the 2, a bit shorter, and a Head that was more Squere IMO. Now thats not to say that it couldnt of just been the Bloodlines in the Amstaff's, as Im not a Expert...The Books Describe the 2 Breeds as THE SAME !! They staited that it's ONLY because of the Registry that they are called 2 Differnet Breeds. Until i Joined this Forum i was STILL under this Impression Even though I Own a Male AMSTAFF and can see with my Own Eyes he was nothing Like my Pure Bread Female Pit. NOW we have thrown another Similure breed into the Mix, " BULLY". I have Only heard of Bullies over the Past YR. Im sure they have been around Longer as i bought the books w/ Razor in the 90's, But Im in the Blacktop Business not Pitbull/Dog, so i havent followed. When I was Looking for a New PUP (Diamond) I googled The ASPCA's, HS in my surounding states. I saw Several Pit's and Bullies however Bully's Looked Nothin like the Pit's who Im familure with. I googled Bully's and Found IRONMAN PIT's as well as Others Claiming to breed XXL Bully Pit's... Well that CONFUSED the Heck out of me seeing that They look more like a Cross Between a Old English Bulldog and Possibly a Staffy head or like some Kind of Mastiff w/a Wringly Head. Well that turned me away, Them Calling them Pits and Me Thinking that they were now a MUT and also a Mut of Breeds I know nothing about. I did like the fact that they are said to be NON Animal Aggressive, But i wasn't lookin for a 13" high Bulldog. I was looking to replace TAYA which was a beautiful Loyal Pure APBT.
I now have Learned ( on this forum) That what I read was wrong and some of the Bully sites (breeders) are full of Dog Due) because they are accually advertizing Bully's as Pit/Mastiff on some Web pages....lol...To make a LONG story short, The Mass confusion is kinda funny, and it's here nore there to me sence i don't show the breed, I'm just a Guy lookin for a Good Companion ;) But thats my Veiw of why so many are Ignorant Including me, It's Kinda Like Politics i guess, They say and write about what they think will sell someone on somthing somtimes No matter if it's Been researched or Not. This is the Most Informative Forum ive ever been a Part of, and im glad i joined as to in the back of my mind i was still wondering about these things, lol...
I'm totally with you on this! And glad to know I'm not alone in my confusion, even if you do have a better handle on it than I do. And for the record I now officially have no idea what Maggie is, and not just cause she's a rescue with no papers. I honestly don't see the difference between APBT and AST that seems so apparent to everyone else. :hammer:
 

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Proud CGC Parent
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
lol...okay entertain me...bully breeders aren't breeding to the standard...which breeders are you referring to...that you've actually seen their stock...or are we repeating what we've heard others say...
for every crappy bully breeder you can show me....i will match you a byb breeding off the apbt name...lol...cmon...don't make generalized statements like this unless your really ready to back them up...if you wanna play...lemme know :)
??? Why is this being turned into an bully vs APBT thing? I don't have an issue with bullies?

BYB of bullies are not breeding to standard, I thought I said that pretty clearly, and those are the breeders that you see when you google for a bully pup or an APBT; I would say they are the majority right now. Finding a good kennel takes a lot of time and effort that regular joe schmoe either doesn't care about doing or have the knowledge to do. Thus, BYB who are just breeding for wide or low or bulky bullies without thought for the standard (which keeps function and conformation in mind) are going to be making money and are thus going to keep perpetuating their practices.

These breeders are the reason people think the American Bullies shouldn't be their own breed -- because people don't realize that there are correct and conformational dogs out there. I never said these people were right. Just that it was understandable.
 

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GYPSY PAVING
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445 Posts
???
BYB of bullies are not breeding to standard, I thought I said that pretty clearly, and those are the breeders that you see when you google for a bully pup or an APBT; I would say they are the majority right now. Finding a good kennel takes a lot of time and effort that regular joe schmoe either doesn't care about doing or have the knowledge to do. Thus, BYB who are just breeding for wide or low or bulky bullies without thought for the standard (which keeps function and conformation in mind) are going to be making money and are thus going to keep perpetuating their practices.QUOTE]

YOU NAILED IT !!!!!! :cheers:
 

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GYPSY PAVING
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I'm totally with you on this! And glad to know I'm not alone in my confusion, even if you do have a better handle on it than I do. And for the record I now officially have no idea what Maggie is, and not just cause she's a rescue with no papers. I honestly don't see the difference between APBT and AST that seems so apparent to everyone else. :hammer:
I Found a GOOD Description of the 2 Breed Standards ONLINE. If you google it you'll find that there are Differances in Body Type, including Hight,Maybe only By a Tiny bit, But still Different, Also there are Head/Jaw Features listed SLIGHTly Different. My male is a Perfect Example for me, And TAYA was the Perfect APBT, so i had a Great Example to help me Learn. Taya (APBT) TO ME looked More Athletic, more Sleek, Anyone can correct me if im wrong on Whats the NORM, and thats Not to say Amstaffs arent athletic looking. In laymonds term I would describe what I see as a Guard vs Running back. (A BIT EXAGERATED for my Point) Or a Power lifter vs Bodybuilder. Rocky (AMSTAFF) is shorter/Square head, and therfore Looks Stockyer.

PS, Warn me If I say anything that can get me banned, lol...There Droppin like Fly's..hahahah
 

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Ill Tell Y'all a story. Ling time ago I was looking for a house. I was young good job no credit but I was ready to rent. Had a dog named duce. Duce was a purebreed Am Staff had papers an all. So I called a guy bout renting his house. We talked for literally 1 minute I told him I had a dog he asked what kind. I said am staff he said "Oh hell no a pitbull conversation over good bye" now what this guy didn't know is I had 3,000 dollers in the bank saved to move right in right then. His house sat there on the market to kept trynna rent it out never could. That is the reason I don't hold conversation with people to many times about my dogs now a days unless there willing to learn an not assume they know it all
 
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