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· Work them Pet Bulls!
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay, so after OB class today I was approached by this guy all smiles walking toward Bella and I. It was all good...he was loving on her and gave her treats. So we get to talking and he was like how old is she? and I said 7 months. How much does she weigh? I said 44 lbs. And then he was like she is a beautiful pit and well behaved. You are doing a great job with her. I said thank you but she is an American Bully and he said a what??? I repeated myself. He was like I don't know who is telling you, you have a bully but I have bred and owned pits for over 20 years and she looks all pit to me. So I explained the difference in the two and he agreed that a real game bred pit should weigh about 35 to 70 pounds tops. He goes on by saying that my girl is very lean and not big boned enough to be considered a bully. That I will be lucky if she gains another 10 lbs by maturity which in his eyes would make her more pit bull. Now this dude has a mugglestone dog which I just googled and they are Bully. He also has a pit bull and an Amstaff. And here he was telling me that I have a pit bull because she looks full pit and is built lean like a pit. Now Bella's bloodlines consist of Razors edge/watchdog/knowlwood/grapevine. I have her UKC papers that go 4 generations back and on her mom's side she has some well known bullies in her pedigree that Lauren (pitbullmamnatl) helped me sort out and showed me pictures of.......and they were bully.
Here's where I am confused.....I came here to learn as much as possible about this breed we all share and love be it bully or pit bull. But, like most new owners I was sold an APBT by Bella's breeder. Well in coming here I have been told I have a Bully. Okay, fine by me because most of you all here are very well educated on both breeds and it didn't bother me to be told that. I love this dog no matter what she is. However, judging by what you see of my dog on here for pictures without seeing her in person like this dude did. Is it really fair to say she is a 100% Bully without actually seeing her? I thought if anything she was a classic sized bully because of the way she is built. But what is the "classic" size standard?? I don't mind being told what I have but I don't want to look like an idiot either when I am talking to other pit bull people that I meet. It makes me look like I don't know what I have for a dog and also don't know what I am talking about. So, with all that said please feel free to critique' my girl. I take no offense to anything said :) I love this place and all the people on it! :D

Natural stack though not a good one


[


 

· OCD Bullyologist
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Ahhh.... Well..... This is why Devin (Loudmouf) says that just because a dog has RE in a pedigree doesn't make it an Am Bully. Pedigree and structure play a big part in the American Bully and I have seen her parents and her big brother Zuko, who looks very bully in my opinion. She is still young and will fill out more; however, I'd say she will be a classic bully. As I told you last night she is "bulliest" on her dam's father side coming off of Quake, Manu, Biggie, etc. I'll comment more in a minute.
 

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Both my dog sDooney and Zoey have RE in them a decent amount and I would not call either bully. Both are ADBA pointed and do well showing as APBT in the ADBA. The argument will be made by every one forever just like the game dog am staffs. But it is about the way the dogs were bred,if they were bred to be bully or bred to APBTs.
Zoey

Dooney
 

· K9 Pshrynk & Conciliare~
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^^^ exactly.... the deal of it is that the bully is an exaggerated trait...

Most APBT type dogs arent done growing until 2.... Some of those heavy jocko bred dogs grow fast be full grown at 8 mos and you have to wait 8 more mos to work them out... LOL .. If she still looks like that at 2 then I would say you have the APBT style of / or strain of the RE lines..
 

· Work them Pet Bulls!
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
^^^ exactly.... the deal of it is that the bully is an exaggerated trait...

Most APBT type dogs arent done growing until 2.... Some of those heavy jocko bred dogs grow fast be full grown at 8 mos and you have to wait 8 more mos to work them out... LOL .. If she still looks like that at 2 then I would say you have the APBT style of / or strain of the RE lines..
Yes, I guess we will have to wait and see what she becomes. I really don't see her weighing anymore than 55 lbs. Most of the bitches in my girls mothers last litter were anywhere between 50 and 65 lbs. Who knows.....
 

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She is bully, no doubt. My girl is the same age,she's 30lbs as of now,and I am pretty sure my girl is a pitbull. I have not been told any different.

But I too have a hard time telling bullies from pitbulls, if the bullies don't look like hippos.(No offense! I love me some bullies too!)
 

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She will be pretty thick for a APBT. I have an APBT and she is 1 1/2 years and weighs 48 pounds. The pics of your dog make her look real broad which would make me think she leans more toward a bully. I hope you find out for sure soon and let us know. It will give us good insight when addressing other dogs.
 

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ok.... the dogs bloodline is all bully line bred dogs correct? if this is correct then the dog IS A BULLY.... just because the dog doesnt fit the standard for a bully doesnt make it anything else... just like if you have a true APBT and it comes out a large freaky monster doesnt change its lineage... That guy that you spoke to has no clue what he is talking about..... if he was really into TRUE APBT's he would know the difference once you mentioned the dogs lineage... Love your dog whatever it is... hes a good looking youngster... take care folks...
 

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I have said this before and I will say it again it makes no difference how big or small the dog is it's about the dog's linage that tells the complete story. Those lines you have mentioned are staff/show and bully lines. The confusion comes about when breeder's start crossing game blood (APBT) blood into show(STAFF) or bully blood. This happens all to often when it shouldn't.

What do you call these dogs who's top pedigree is all game blood and the bottom part is all bully or staff blood? How do we explain why a dog who stems from bullies, or staff's but falls more on the APBT side of the standard? Well that's easy to answer ... These things happen because the dog is not bred to any specific breed standard which is all to common because of the breeder's agenda to begin with. A lot of back yard breeder's don't think about breeding to a particular breed standard they will throw anything together with or without papers and call it a day if breeder's were in fact breeding to a standard a lot of this confusion would go away because the blueprints have already been drawn and laid out for us by the creators (Dog Men) of this breed the APBT. Part of breeding to a standard is actively culling OUT those dogs who do not fit the intended standard. Sloppy breeder's don't care about breeding to any standard to begin with let alone culling those dog's who are not ideal representatives of the breed standard. IMO a well bred dog should show consistency from past dogs in the pedigree that is how you know someone was doing there job and actually planned the breeding and studied pedigrees with an intended purpose or outcome in mind before they bred anything.

I'll just use my dog's as an example there is no mistaking the Jeep/Redboy in Ava or the Jocko/Redboy in bogart you can clearly go through their pedigree's and they are very consistent with the past dog's they stem from. Once you have studied pedigree's and past dog's long enough you start to see physical traits and attributes passed down and carried out in these dog's in the present. When I see a dog and it's pedigree I want to see throw backs, I want to be able to look at that dog and say man I can see the Jeep in that dog. Or I can see the Red boy in that dog. Just look at the Colby strain there is no denying a Colby dog even today years and years later. This is what good breeding gives us they don't call it selective breeding for nothing. When you have a bunch of scatter bred mess thrown together, or you start crossing bloodlines that don't belong together this is where that consistency starts to lack and causes a bunch of confusion and it shows in the dogs being produced.

I didn't look at your dog's pedigree in it's entirety but your dog is still young she's not done growing she won't even start to fill out until she hit's 2-3. Maybe she has more staff blood on one side or closer up in the pedigree than she does the other side where the bullier dogs are. The dog doesn't appear to have the bullier traits in her at this time that still doesn't mean anything remember her bloodlines make her what she is unfortunately if the breeder you got her from wasn't breeding to the standard that has been laid out for the Bully she may not ever fall within the standard this is not a reflection of what she is rather this is a reflection of the breeder and how he failed to follow through to any standard before he bred his dogs(happens was too often).

She may grow up to resemble some of the past dog's in the pedigree where she will carry more of the staffy traits rather than the bully traits even though she is a product of both breeds. I most certainly can look at your dog without a pedigree and without a doubt tell you right now she is not an APBT. There is no mistaking game bred dogs from the rest. For one your dog is blue (which is a rare color in the APBT) you will rarely see a blue dog show up within game dog bloodlines it happens but I must be honest it's very very rare and when it does happen usually the dog is culled. Now the color blue is very common in the staff's and the bull staffs. Your girl is a little lippy, her tail is rather thick, head structure is not that of an APBT, she also has a little too much wrinkle in the forehead. And at 7 months for a female she is rather stocky. She looks more Staffy or a Classic Bully to me right now more than anything else.

Even without looking at her pedigree (even though that is the final say so) I have studied this breeds structure long enough to say confidently that your dog is NOT an APBT. Plus your dog is already 44lbs at 7 months old for a female that is HUGE compared to your classic game bred bitch. Bogart is older than your dog by 2 months he is also a male who comes down from big dogs like Cudda and Mayday and even he is smaller than your dog he is 32lbs at 9 months old. Ava at 4 a female is 50lbs your female is only a few pounds away from weighing what my full grown dog weighs.


I am not the final say so in the law of APBT's but it is of my opinion that APBT's should be descendant's of game dogs or game proven themselves no mixing of any other blood from like breeds in between. When I look at an APBT pedigree I want to see box champions and nothing else. A dog bred for show is a staff or a show dog if the dog is bred for show and the box well someone wasn't thinking clearly before they bred the dogs you don't breed show blood into game blood just like you don't breed bully blood into APBT blood it's a big flat NO NO and it's looked down upon by dog men and true fanciers of either breed. The dog's who are bred to be a bullier style of dog with the bullier characteristics and traits are bullies.

This is only my opinion of course and people have the right to disagree with me. When I went looking for a real APBT I went looking for a bulldog a dog who stems from nothing but box proven game dogs that earned their titles/merits in the box that's what these dogs were created for and that is what I sought out for an APBT that is how I ended up with Bogart and Ava. If I wanted a dog bred strictly for show I would have gone another route.


Remember this breeding consistency is what set's a dog apart from the rest. You should always be able to see consistency in your dog and his pedigree. If I can't see the consistency in my dog and his pedigree I have a serious problem with that.
 

· GP's Dr. Phil
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You have a bully by pedigree I'm assuming. However, like it was mentioned in bullies 101, you can have a bully but not necessarily a show quality ambully. What I mean is, youmay have a bully bythe books but it might not be up to standards. Just like game(bred) dogs- not all ofthem have good conformation. Not all look the same. Some look bulldogish, some look like terriers, and some have a generalized look go them( not trying to ruffle feathers.) It all depends on what direction the breeder went in. Amstaff, bullies, apbt's or w/e. Argument has went on for years. There are plenty of ppl with all ofthese breeds in their dogs pedigree but showthem to different standards in different registries. Why? Because all but the akc(just stopped recently)allowed for all these dogs to cross register. It's a never ending debate and it's hard to say where to draw the line. But back to not all bullies are technically bullies - a nice tri male that everyone loved that I posted pics of (RIP) was RE in the top two generations. The rest of the ped consisted of Gaff and gator quite a few times He looked like a fit amstaff- two time agility champ. At 3 years of age he "turned on" and died in a yard accident. I'm well aware of the bloodlines or breeds but just as Firehazard was able to prove- it's in the direction you take your program in and the game of genetics is a beast lol. Anything can be washed out with selective breeding and culling. The mixing of breeds has gone on for years even in the game dog history. Yes, they are supposed to be ethical- but with that much money and greed going around, I'm sure some dogs were added. Besides, you can see it lol. Not every dogman let his recipe out and many dogs had "multiple" pedigrees. Your dog is cute and appears to be lighter in build.

Look at my dog- bully on paper but not by abkc standard





 

· Work them Pet Bulls!
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
You have a bully by pedigree I'm assuming. However, like it was mentioned in bullies 101, you can have a bully but not necessarily a show quality ambully. What I mean is, youmay have a bully bythe books but it might not be up to standards. Just like game(bred) dogs- not all ofthem have good conformation. Not all look the same. Some look bulldogish, some look like terriers, and some have a generalized look go them( not trying to ruffle feathers.) It all depends on what direction the breeder went in. Amstaff, bullies, apbt's or w/e. Argument has went on for years. There are plenty of ppl with all ofthese breeds in their dogs pedigree but showthem to different standards in different registries. Why? Because all but the akc(just stopped recently)allowed for all these dogs to cross register. It's a never ending debate and it's hard to say where to draw the line. But back to not all bullies are technically bullies - a nice tri male that everyone loved that I posted pics of (RIP) was RE in the top two generations. The rest of the ped consisted of Gaff and gator quite a few times He looked like a fit amstaff- two time agility champ. At 3 years of age he "turned on" and died in a yard accident. I'm well aware of the bloodlines or breeds but just as Firehazard was able to prove- it's in the direction you take your program in and the game of genetics is a beast lol. Anything can be washed out with selective breeding and culling. The mixing of breeds has gone on for years even in the game dog history. Yes, they are supposed to be ethical- but with that much money and greed going around, I'm sure some dogs were added. Besides, you can see it lol. Not every dogman let his recipe out and many dogs had "multiple" pedigrees. Your dog is cute and appears to be lighter in build.

Look at my dog- bully on paper but not by abkc standard





Your boy is beautiful! I hear what you are saying. I didn't start this thread to argue "game bred" vs. bully because it's like beating a dead horse with that argument :hammer:. Reality is, is when I walk my dog around my hood whether bully or not she will be referred to as a "pit bull" BECAUSE people around here where I live have pit bulls whether they are 35 lbs or 100 lbs. It's lack of education in the two breeds and more people have them as a "status symbol" than anything so ignorance is a big part of that as well. My original post was me being more sarcastic than anything on what this dude was saying to me. I have her pedigree and I see the bullies in her ped. And some well known bullies at that but most on her moms side. I came here with an open mind and to learn more about this breed. Well, once I started learning and posting it was told to me that I have a bully and it was then broken down as to what the difference is between the two.
Apparently, I have always liked the bully look because when searching for my dog I knew what body type I wanted and it wasn't the game type dogs that attracted me to the breed. I must see more bullies than anything where I live because the dogs I see aren't small. Though there are a couple of people who say they have pits that look like a whippet on steroids but I'm thinking they are a mix of some sort. Who knows............anyways, I basically started this thread so I can have some reassurance on exactly what I have. And I have a bully :) enough said! Thanks for everyones input, appreciate it :roll:
 
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· GP's Dr. Phil
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Most def :)

I get the whole " he's small for a pit :hammer: I tell em he's a ambully and I get a look like I have two heads. Then I get the " how is he with you daughter?" I'm like great lol. Then they ask if he is friendly. I tell them to pet him and he might just lick you to death haha.
 

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great post everyone... Thank you O.P. for having the will, respect and the proper mindset to learn about these different hounds... you are heading in the right direction and you are a future advocate of these breeds... use the knowledge to help others like that fool... lol... good stuff folks..
 

· OCD Bullyologist
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You have a bully by pedigree I'm assuming. However, like it was mentioned in bullies 101, you can have a bully but not necessarily a show quality ambully. What I mean is, youmay have a bully bythe books but it might not be up to standards. Just like game(bred) dogs- not all ofthem have good conformation. Not all look the same. Some look bulldogish, some look like terriers, and some have a generalized look go them( not trying to ruffle feathers.) It all depends on what direction the breeder went in. Amstaff, bullies, apbt's or w/e. Argument has went on for years. There are plenty of ppl with all ofthese breeds in their dogs pedigree but showthem to different standards in different registries. Why? Because all but the akc(just stopped recently)allowed for all these dogs to cross register. It's a never ending debate and it's hard to say where to draw the line. But back to not all bullies are technically bullies - a nice tri male that everyone loved that I posted pics of (RIP) was RE in the top two generations. The rest of the ped consisted of Gaff and gator quite a few times He looked like a fit amstaff- two time agility champ. At 3 years of age he "turned on" and died in a yard accident. I'm well aware of the bloodlines or breeds but just as Firehazard was able to prove- it's in the direction you take your program in and the game of genetics is a beast lol. Anything can be washed out with selective breeding and culling. The mixing of breeds has gone on for years even in the game dog history. Yes, they are supposed to be ethical- but with that much money and greed going around, I'm sure some dogs were added. Besides, you can see it lol. Not every dogman let his recipe out and many dogs had "multiple" pedigrees. Your dog is cute and appears to be lighter in build.

Look at my dog- bully on paper but not by abkc standard





Freddie, I think if you put about 10-13 more pounds on him he would fit ABKC standard but I knows you like him at the weight he is at ;) lol
 

· OCD Bullyologist
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I just want to say that just because Razors Edge is in a pedigree does not mean it is an American Bully. Back in the 90s there were many people and breeders on the East Coast that bought RE dogs because of how well they were doing in the UKC show ring at that time and they used them in their programs; however, many of these people did not agree with the Am Bully fad that came about. Thus these people steered clear of the dogs that took any other direction than clean such as the extreme. These particular dogs wouldn't be classified as American Bullies. GRCH Blue Diamond's The Big Payback 'Montana' is a perfect example of that.
 

· Work them Pet Bulls!
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Most def :)

I get the whole " he's small for a pit :hammer: I tell em he's a ambully and I get a look like I have two heads. Then I get the " how is he with you daughter?" I'm like great lol. Then they ask if he is friendly. I tell them to pet him and he might just lick you to death haha.
WORD! :thumbsup: That's whats up! :)
 

· Work them Pet Bulls!
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
great post everyone... Thank you O.P. for having the will, respect and the proper mindset to learn about these different hounds... you are heading in the right direction and you are a future advocate of these breeds... use the knowledge to help others like that fool... lol... good stuff folks..
Thanks Roe! I appreciate that! I have been advocating for pit bulls/bullys for a very long time. I have always had a soft spot for them. :)
 
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