[KMdogs]

Blue was never considered the color of a Bulldog for a reason. Many want to believe that the dilution makes no difference, however the same people also want to believe that the years prior to 1976 Dogmen would fight anything tested and willing to go in the [],,

So the question then becomes, which is it? If the dilute is just simply a color, at some point some one would have tried and proved the theory wrong. In stead, it was proven to be far more in the mind linked to the dilution.

There are some fine "Blue" dogs out there, some great agility dogs, sporting dogs, even some relatively decent catch dogs.. More along the lines of strike dogs or trail. However, in the end you can't argue with the long documented history that is in black and white and available to any with questions.

There were plenty of rebel - minded thinkers involved in these Bulldogs, many had some seemingly quite ridiculous takes on genetics and what made a game dog perfected, such as all dogs not red are curs.. However, it worked for their own stock and there were always those behind them showing what foolish the belief was. You can bet your bank account if there was "blue" in purity and able, someone would have utilized that corner.. After all, would have been for at least the beginning the least bet on winner which in returns mean heavily profit with gambling.

The only thing that can be said without a doubt, post 76' is when the dilution REALLY took off and now you can't go into a shelter or walk down the street or go to a pet store without seeing at least one of these "blue" dogs..

I can speak from my own experiences, i would never feed a "blue" dog intended to for fill my own needs.. Inconsistent and too much quit in the genes. Been saying it for a while now.

 

[Goemon]

How do you prevent paper hanging as a registry. How does on monitor that?

I haven't personally been involved with those issues, a registry.
But I do know that time reveals the paper hangers. In the end they get caught.
Haven't heard of it in the OFRNR, while a young registry, it is becoming a tight knit community, and will continue to hopefully.

 

[KMdogs]

No registry is fool proof, eventually time changes all.. ADBA is not what it used to be even though most hold it at very high standards.. Better than UKC, AKC.. But, then again would you rather eat McDonalds or ?

 

[hedibenbrahim]

Call it my educated guess, lol.
Do the math...when zero is multiplied by any number, what is the answer? Always zero of course.
Apply that to dogs....why are AST's not considered ApBT's anymore?
Because they have not been matched. They are not designed for the [].
Now, if a dog, today is not an ApBT, we know it is a cur dog, a dog that will quit.
History is the witness to this.
Also, once gameness is lost, it is lost forever.
Many who started with good blood have ruined the same blood, in regards to it's original purpose.

But let us look back at the original definitions on these terms.
Gameness is not a trait that makes a dog a bad ass. Being strong and barnstorming does not equal gameness.
Gameness, in fact, is only something that can be seen when a dog is taking a whipping.
The whole world can tell that dog he is losing, but that dog won't believe the world. He will scratch until he can move no longer.
Cur is the word used for all non-ApBT's.
In relation to the ApBT breed, it is the biggest insult upon a dog.
The rest of the dog world fights out of fear, dominance, and jealousy...
But once the pressure is on, they whine and wimper and cry foul, LOL.

Also, most know the blues have poor health issues.
That alone would disqualify them as Pit Dogs.

If there are any out there, I have no clue who has em.
Never heard of a game blue dog, and most likely never will.

so GAMENESS can only be shown in the []. AND NO OTHER WAY ???

 

[hedibenbrahim]

There are many books out there....many old magazines.
Best is hearing it from those who were in the fraternity before the 1976 Animal Welfare Act.

I know of no breeders that will ship dogs out of the USA.

I can come over there and pick it up myself...

 

[hedibenbrahim]

Blue was never considered the color of a Bulldog for a reason. Many want to believe that the dilution makes no difference, however the same people also want to believe that the years prior to 1976 Dogmen would fight anything tested and willing to go in the [],,

So the question then becomes, which is it? If the dilute is just simply a color, at some point some one would have tried and proved the theory wrong. In stead, it was proven to be far more in the mind linked to the dilution.

There are some fine "Blue" dogs out there, some great agility dogs, sporting dogs, even some relatively decent catch dogs.. More along the lines of strike dogs or trail. However, in the end you can't argue with the long documented history that is in black and white and available to any with questions.

There were plenty of rebel - minded thinkers involved in these Bulldogs, many had some seemingly quite ridiculous takes on genetics and what made a game dog perfected, such as all dogs not red are curs.. However, it worked for their own stock and there were always those behind them showing what foolish the belief was. You can bet your bank account if there was "blue" in purity and able, someone would have utilized that corner.. After all, would have been for at least the beginning the least bet on winner which in returns mean heavily profit with gambling.

The only thing that can be said without a doubt, post 76' is when the dilution REALLY took off and now you can't go into a shelter or walk down the street or go to a pet store without seeing at least one of these "blue" dogs..

I can speak from my own experiences, i would never feed a "blue" dog intended to for fill my own needs.. Inconsistent and too much quit in the genes. Been saying it for a while now.

Krystal clear...

 

[KMdogs]

so GAMENESS can only be shown in the []. AND NO OTHER WAY ???

Depends on whom you ask, i would venture to say Goemon would say yes to your question.

In my opinion no, gameness can also be shown through any venture where a life and death scenario can rise as a biproduct testing what you feed.

Of course this is in part of what you are exposed to and what your experience tells you.. I can tell you scenarios of which can arise when hunting a boar that refuses to give in, a buck that gives up chase and fights back, pinning down an alpha male or small pack of wolves that do not quit that have taken dogs with ease.. The ability of which a single dog needs in order to survive after taking the pounding and come out on top is somethin' special, it may be dismissed by some however i can tell you different. I can also say under some extreme cases, protection dogs can also be arguably tested.. In my opinion, gameness and the similarity of mentality in such fields is not only historically accurate to suggest of War Mastiffs but highly viewed and sought for.

High end Bulldogs, traditional stock Bandogs.. Yes Sir.

There has been threads like this in the past, there is i believe another game thread of which myself and Stan (FireHazard) shared these views and attempted to shed light to others.

So i wont go into everything that has already been said.

HOWEVER, if we are strictly talking about the APBT as the Pit implies only one venue of instilled purpose.. Yes, there is only one method of such in order to accurately test as APBT.. After all, Bull Baiters and prior to APBT name Bulldogs have been around longer.. Same genetics, different names and purpose.. The genetics were there to perfect gameness, it didn't magically appear from thin air.

 

[hedibenbrahim]

Depends on whom you ask, i would venture to say Goemon would say yes to your question.

In my opinion no, gameness can also be shown through any venture where a life and death scenario can rise as a biproduct testing what you feed.

Of course this is in part of what you are exposed to and what your experience tells you.. I can tell you scenarios of which can arise when hunting a boar that refuses to give in, a buck that gives up chase and fights back, pinning down an alpha male or small pack of wolves that do not quit that have taken dogs with ease.. The ability of which a single dog needs in order to survive after taking the pounding and come out on top is somethin' special, it may be dismissed by some however i can tell you different. I can also say under some extreme cases, protection dogs can also be arguably tested.. In my opinion, gameness and the similarity of mentality in such fields is not only historically accurate to suggest of War Mastiffs but highly viewed and sought for.

High end Bulldogs, traditional stock Bandogs.. Yes Sir.

There has been threads like this in the past, there is i believe another game thread of which myself and Stan (FireHazard) shared these views and attempted to shed light to others.

So i wont go into everything that has already been said.

HOWEVER, if we are strictly talking about the APBT as the Pit implies only one venue of instilled purpose.. Yes, there is only one method of such in order to accurately test as APBT.. After all, Bull Baiters and prior to APBT name Bulldogs have been around longer.. Same genetics, different names and purpose.. The genetics were there to perfect gameness, it didn't magically appear from thin air.

haaaaaaaaaaaaaaah... GAMENESS for me means never quit... it´s a mentality... not a limited physical strength... so I guess it can be tested in different other ways...
My definition:
GAMENESS est tout simplement ne jamais abandonner, et acharnement vouloir réussir au point d´ignorer tout le mal autour.
translation:
GAMENESS is simply never give up, and relentlessly want to succeed at the point to ignore all the evil around.

 

[bradbenjamin1984]

Any thoughts about this Blue and Tan pattern on the history of real APBT ???

http://hqbullies.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/tri-color-pitbulls-for-sale.jpg

I have blue tan point from Lightner x ofrn x chinaman

 

[bradbenjamin1984]

got ya

but what about Blue and Tan did it exist ???

Yes I have one . Just had 3 from breeding a red ofrn with blue eli