[performanceknls]

So I just talked to a buddy of mine who has a dog from me from my first breeding 10 years ago. This dog is a Zebo/Carver dog and had an accidental breeding with a blue female several years ago. We want to breed his dog again and were talking about the dogs from that litter and he had mentioned that there was 2 blues in the litter. Now this baffles me as I thought to get a blue there had to be blue gene in both dogs...... Now I know the dogs in his ped for several generations and no blue dogs.... WTHeck happened, am I missing something?

 

[American_Pit13]

Theres blue somewhere. Each parent has to be a carrier so someone is carrying some secret blue gene

 

[Sadie]

Both parents have to be carriers of the dilute dd gene for it to show up. There is no test available to even see if the parents are carriers. But if you bred the 2 and a blue dog was in the litter than both parents are carriers of the dd gene. Also Black dogs become blue when they are dd on the D locus. Blues can range from silver to almost black, and it can be difficult to tell a blue from a black by just looking at photographs. However, when the dog is actually examined, it should be obvious that the nose is blue.

 

[performanceknls]

I know on Kaos's ped there is a lot of black dogs with the Zebo lines, could it have come from them? So if there are a lot of black dogs can they carry the DD without it showing up till a blue was thrown in? I am so confused on this whole DD gene I know Monsoon was the only blue in his litter and I know somewhere along the way there was a few blues but mostly Black and some reds. Monsoon is blue but in the sun he is very brown as where tempest is toally blue no doubt about that. When I breed him to Siren I am wondering what the colors will be.... very interesting this blue gene and I am still learning.

 

[American_Pit13]

If siren doesn't carry blue ( I believe she doesn't?) then you will not get blues, however all your puppies will carry blue from Monsoon because he is blue so I believe he passes to everyone, but it may be a percentage he can pass it to I don't remember. If those are bred to a dog that carries blue then you have a likeliness of blue puppies.

 

[Sadie]

That is what I am thinking your zebo/carver dog stems from a lot of black dogs so some of the black dog's were carriers of the gene and it was passed along to your dog. If anything it's more common for the black dogs to be carriers since the color blue is a dilute of black. A blue dog is already a known carrier of diluted gene. So it's very easy to explain why blue pups showed up in the litter the mom is already a known carrier (because she is blue) and the dad your dog is carrying the gene which most likely came from the black dogs somewhere down the line.

 

[Sadie]

If siren doesn't carry blue ( I believe she doesn't?) then you will not get blues, however all your puppies will carry blue from Monsoon because he is blue so I believe he passes to everyone, but it may be a percentage he can pass it to I don't remember. If those are bred to a dog that carries blue then you have a likeliness of blue puppies.

:goodpost:

If siren is not a carrier you will not get any blue pups, however those pups could become carriers if the dd gene is passed on to them through monsoon(the known carrier he's blue so we know for sure he's a carrier) like I said there is no test available to detect the gene. So later on if one of these pups are bred to another blue dog or a dog who happens to be a carrier of the dilute gene then blue pups could show up.

 

[performanceknls]

Thanks Tara that is what I was thinking but not too sure. I know the dogs on both sides for at least 6 generations then it goes all back to the older Zebo and carver stuff that we all know. Now if I get blue pups off of Siren I am going to crack up!! Leonard and I keep talking about how if we get a blue dog I was a refund from Siren! LMAO

 

[Sadie]

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA That's hilarious!!! I would sure be asking for a refund!!

 

[performanceknls]

Do you know what a hard time I am going to give her breeder if I get a blue? Some how he will blame Monsoon for infecting her! LMAO
Oh and they are doing a repeat of Siren's litter so I might end up with her sister. I told them to make one just like Siren and I'll take it! lol

 

[SouthernMystery]

All blue is, is diluted black. If the line carries black then it carries blue.

 

[9361]

When are you planning the breeding?

 

[Sadie]

All blue is, is diluted black. If the line carries black then it carries blue.

Not all black dogs carry the dd gene at the D locus which must happen in order for a blue dog to pop up. Yes blue is a dilute of black but it's a bit more complicated than that.

 

[performanceknls]

When are you planning the breeding?

Siren's next heat cycle she will be bred I'm excited, Monsoon always produces really nice work ethics and biddable dogs. The last breeding I got some out of control drive (which is not a bad thing) but I want to see if I can get more biddable dogs. The boys are a little too gamebred and I hate having to use so much force. I had always planned on breeding Monsoon to Siren but wanted to breed her to Zorro first. It will be an outcross but Monsoon has produced great dogs both times I have out crossed him. Kind of both of my working lines coming together and my little experiment so we'll see how it turns out. That is one thing about breeding, everything I do is a bit of an experiment on my part since this is really only my 3rd working litter. One of these days I hope to have established working dogs that I like and can produce constantly. Siren's last litter turned out great and I think Monsoon has some great traits to pass to the offspring. It's funny how both times he was bred he produced similar dogs when he was bred to two totally different bitches.

Later on down the road it will be fun to see what Barca and Varro Produce if I decide to breed them, same goes for Earl, Xena, and Crixus. This is one reason I kept breeding rights to all my dogs so I have access to them later on. It might be interesting to breed a Siren x monsoon pup back to a Siren x Zorro pup. hummm see lots of possibilities :woof:

 

[Rudy4747]

That is awesome I thought in the back of my head " I wonder if she is going to mix the two working lines she has." I can't wait to see how they come out.

 

[Rudy4747]

I might be wrong but I heard that some Bordeaux dogs carry Recessive blue Could this not be hiding way back in the carver blood.

 

[Sadie]

The Bordeaux dogs have been known to throw some blues here and there I have seen a few of them and there peds.

 

[performanceknls]

huh, interesting!

 

[9361]

Can't wait to see what they produce! (starts saving her money) LOL

 

[performanceknls]

I have no clue what I am going to get or if I am even going to really advertise them for co-own. Who knows it might be a total bust and I will have to cull or S/N them into pet homes. I hope not I think I will get some really nice dogs.