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OCD Bullyologist
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
1. "One of the most interesting questions still to understand ... is why did the wolf keep locked in its genome everything that was necessary to make a Pekingese to a Great Dane," said Elaine A. Ostrander of the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center in Seattle. (Shar-Peis, Huskies Are Closest to Wolves By RANDOLPH E. SCHMID, Associated Press Writer)

2. The intriguing part is that the wolf (or original dog kind) apparently had the genetic information front loaded for all the future and subsequent dog breeds. Something that not only conforms to the creationist model and Intelligent Design (ID) model but isn't logical according to the Theory of Evolution (ToE) model. ToE would require mutation, natural selection, etc. Why would the wolf breed keep seemingly useless information locked into its genome? Why would it be there in the first place?

3. Is the dog genome front-loaded into the wolf genome? Is the Creationist in #2 interpreting Dr Ostrander's words correctly?


-An undergraduate from New York

August 25, 2004

I can see how changing a wolf into a Chihuahua could make someone question evolution! However, this process can be explained by naturally occurring mutations and selection by humans.

Recent studies of the dog DNA sequence have shown that dogs were most likely domesticated from East Asian wolves 15,000 years ago or more. The appearance of the domestic dogs varies tremendously between different breeds. For example compare a tiny 1 pound Chihuahua to a 160 pound Mastiff or a Great Dane.


How can we explain such tremendous diversity starting from wolf DNA as raw material? Was "frontloading" of different dog breeds in the wolf genome necessary in the first place? And is this contrary to the theory of evolution and supportive of creationism?

The theory of evolution developed by Charles Darwin in the 1850's states that species are related and change over time, usually in response to natural selection. Using modern knowledge of biology, we can identify what natural selection really operates on: our DNA.

Changes or mutations in our DNA occur at a certain rate. They are an inevitable byproduct of our cellular functions. From one perspective, mutations happen very rarely; on average, only 1 in 30 million nucleotides mutates per person every generation. However there are 3 billion nucleotides in our genome. Therefore every individual carries, on average, 100 new mutations!

Most of these 100 new mutations have no effect by themselves. They are said to "drift", either accumulating or disappearing across generations purely by chance. Therefore, within a population, there will be a large stock of mutations represented in different individuals, the so-called "gene pool".

If a mutation is beneficial, meaning it makes the organism more fit in a certain environment, chances are high that it will be passed on little by little over the generations to the rest of the population. This is the process of natural selection conceived of by Darwin, whereby over time, species change because their DNA evolves. Creationism on the other hand states that natural selection cannot produce new species. They were created or designed perhaps by a divine entity.

Now, what about wolves and dogs. Is the fact that dogs are closely related to wolves compatible with the theory of evolution? The short answer is yes, but the underlying reasons require some clarification.

What Dr. Ostrander really meant was not that any single wolf carried pre-existing information necessary to make different breeds of dogs, but that much of this information was available in the total gene pool from a large population. In other words, the wolf genome has the potential to mutate at hundreds of different nucleotides to produce animals with extraordinary diversity.

In fact, the wolf is not particularly special; all species (including humans!) have a similar potential. What makes the story of wolves and dogs unique is that selection was imposed not by a particular environment but by humans. Initially the selection was imposed by ancient humans who maybe sought domesticated animals for sources of food and companionship. Later modern humans selected dogs for specific traits such as body size and shape, hair length and color, and intelligence.

Dogs and wolves probably diverged from a common ancestor about 15,000 years ago. Furthermore, most dog breeds were developed in the last 200 years. Because even 15,000 years is fairly recent on an evolutionary time scale (by contrast, the time at which rats and mice diverged from a common ancestor is about 50 times longer) much of the information necessary to make different breeds of domestic dogs may have been already represented in the total wolf gene pool due to the processes of mutation and drift.

Thus, the real take-home lesson of domestic dogs is that artificial selection by selective breeding can be extremely powerful, much more so than natural selection, even though the two processes operate on the same underlying gene pool.

In conclusion, we can indeed say that the wolf gene pool was "frontloaded" with the dogs genome but this is not contrary to the theory of evolution. It just shows how much diversity can be brought about by artificial selection. This is a special case of evolution because it is driven by selective breeding instead of natural selection.

As to why the wolf gene pool contained this information, the answer is just chance: random variation exists in any genome as a result of the mutation process. Without variation evolution cannot operate. But with variation the evolutionary process can bring about impressive changes. It can even turn a wolf into a Chihuahua.
 

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GP's Dr. Phil
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Good read up
 

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K9 Pshrynk & Conciliare~
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We manipulated the wolf genes.. I'll leave it at that..

FYI the ancient CHOW was supposed to be more wolf than wolves.. LOL the purple tongue of the chow and shar pei show the herritage.. the black spots that come on up many wolves and wolf dogs also points to this historic fact. The original chow was formidable dog mastiff and wolf splurged into one and that was back when the first mastiffs were down from wolves before they went Roman, Greecian and so forth.. Shar pei are actually from the chinese who built our railroad taking american game dogs home and using them to create a number of different breeed one being crossed with the chow to create the shar pei, dont listen to american propaganda .. LOL they dont want you to know they are APBT/Chow cause this nations wants you to be afraid of APBT and CHOWs.. LOL


When I was a kid I seen some old world Chows, LOL they are nowhere to be found these days... I miss the 100lb working dogs that everyone feared..

there is recent new science 2007 that there was an ancient dog that was 300lbs and the skeleton resembles an APBT almost exact; trying to keep it hush because it overwrites the wolf theory; they have found these skeletons in california and arizona and all the way over in India .. in isolated pockets.. HMMMM... I cant wait til the facts come out on that!
 

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Premium Member
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very interesting. thank you so much for sharing.

300lbs jeesh! I totally cant wait til they figure out what the heck that is, lol. or how old it might be!

Anyone see a special about 2 litters of pups being raised together, 1 litter was from domesticated wolves and 1 litter from a dog, being raised together so everything was exactly the same with these dogs. They ate slept played and lived with the same humans for 2 years and then they begin to study how the wolves and dogs interacted in different situations. They had a bunch of different scenarios, but it was so interesting to see how the wolves did not really include their humans as a helper to them in their pack. The dogs, immediately looked at their humans for help when they knew they could not get the treats. The wolves kept trying to figure out how to open the cage, the dogs sat and looked at their human like, "come on, I know you got thumbs to grab that for me" lol
 

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OCD Bullyologist
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8,663 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
We manipulated the wolf genes.. I'll leave it at that..

FYI the ancient CHOW was supposed to be more wolf than wolves.. LOL the purple tongue of the chow and shar pei show the herritage.. the black spots that come on up many wolves and wolf dogs also points to this historic fact. The original chow was formidable dog mastiff and wolf splurged into one and that was back when the first mastiffs were down from wolves before they went Roman, Greecian and so forth.. Shar pei are actually from the chinese who built our railroad taking american game dogs home and using them to create a number of different breeed one being crossed with the chow to create the shar pei, dont listen to american propaganda .. LOL they dont want you to know they are APBT/Chow cause this nations wants you to be afraid of APBT and CHOWs.. LOL

When I was a kid I seen some old world Chows, LOL they are nowhere to be found these days... I miss the 100lb working dogs that everyone feared..

there is recent new science 2007 that there was an ancient dog that was 300lbs and the skeleton resembles an APBT almost exact; trying to keep it hush because it overwrites the wolf theory; they have found these skeletons in california and arizona and all the way over in India .. in isolated pockets.. HMMMM... I cant wait til the facts come out on that!
I have an article about that somewhere I'll find and post. Good post, FH.
 
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