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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I met someone who had a pit they said was a colby/heinzel( I don't exactly know if I spelled it right) mix. It was a goodlooking dog....but it lacked that "pit" stature....it had NO muscle tone and just didn't give off that powerful look. Also, very submissive so I doubt there is gameness in it. It met our dog and immediately laid down and rolled over. Very friendly though (probably a good "pet")
Anyway, I know about Colby bloodline and how far it goes back and all that, but I have never heard of "heinzel" . According to them it goes back as far as "Old Family Red Nose", and is supposed to be "one of the best" old school lines???????
Does anyone know anything about them?
 

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Cherol..please let me know if this friend of yours owns a male colby /Heinzl
I have a friend very fond of this line he owns a female and wishes a lot to breed her to continue this line which is about to be lost.
Thank you
ciao
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Lisa3 said:
Cherol..please let me know if this friend of yours owns a male colby /Heinzl
I have a friend very fond of this line he owns a female and wishes a lot to breed her to continue this line which is about to be lost.
Thank you
ciao
She has a female. I think the puppy she just bought (from the same place) is a male , however seeing as how it is only 11 weeks old it would be a while. She did say that the breeder was her brother , so I can see what the breeder has to offer. They are located here in Cleveland TN so I don't know what kind of transportation arrangements you would have to make, but I will definately get some info for you...;)

by the way gorgeous dog in tha pics!!!!!

kinda reminds me of our latest addition...
 

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and BTW.. this line isn't fading or going anywhere. I have 2 close friends that have yards full of heinzl dogs, not to mention know quite a few others with it.

No offense to anyone who may be a heinzl fan, but from what I've seen alot of the pure heinzl dogs are tending to be shy, and skiddish.. The goofy dog I own is one of the few that does NOT show those signs. He is outgoing, smart, his biggest problem and why he isn't still here is that he is a horrible rock chewer... He is 5 years old and literally has nubs for teeth..
 

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LadyRampage I was wondering could you point me in the direction of these Heinzl Dogs. I live in IL and they are hard to find here. I owned one for 14 years. I want this bloodline for breeding purposes. ANY help would be greatly appreciated.
 

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Will definetly send your info on to my friend!! He has been working with the heinzl blood for many many years!! I will be talking with him next weekend as a matter of fact!! I know he has a litter of 3/4 heinzl 1/4 hammonds pups on the ground now!
 

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Heinzl Dogs

I love my Heinzl dog, Bingo. He weighs about 65 pounds, turns twelve years old in October so I am trying to plan for a replacement in a few years. Either I'll be trying to breed him to a similar female or looking for a pup just like him:







UKC Conformation Champion, AKC CGC, nice pet and great personality, very athletic. On the suspicious side in new situations but not shy once he gets used to things. Though he could chew up a toy readily enough he can also catch farm ducks for me without damage by running them down and pinning them to the ground. No more of a challenge to housetrain or anything than you'd expect. Not nippy as a pup, always stayed off the counter. Very cuddly without being a pest about it. Happy to play like crazy and doesn't start fights with dogs though that's also the way he was brought up. I think he's got a lot of sensible traits that are worth preserving. Would love to hear updates from anybody keeping the Heinzl bloodline alive.
 

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"How it looks to me" Howard Heinzl

Many dog men you meet start by telling you how many years they have had Bull Terriers. I got my first one when I was 9 years old, and all of 31 years ago. All this proves to my way of thinking is that I like dogs, and mostly that I'm getting older. The hottest dog man around Arizona now is Charlie Spencer, who started about 4 years ago. He's won 3 or 4 good ones with his 48 pound Toby dog, and the one man to beat him so far was Ken Barney, at 36 pounds. Ken has had Pit Bulls about 2 = years now, and will match one at the drop of a hat. Both Spencers Toby and Kennys 36 pound dog were bred by Ed Ritcheson, Ed lost three in a row trying to beat dogs of his own breeding with dogs he would buy around the country. From here on Ed tells me he's using his own.

Another dog man bound to be heard from is Clarence Hager, his wife is as much of a fan as he is. He had two dogs stopped in rolls here lately, and he will shake hands with you afterward, and thank you for helping cull his kennel and cut his feed bill, as he put it. We've all seen old timers at the game who would pout and make excuses when one quit. The old timers who did anything don't have to tell you how many years they have had Bull Terriers, you read about them in the records.

I think John P Colby tops as a breeder. The rolls I saw when I was up at Colbys in 1935 or 1936 were better than half the matches I have ever seen in my life. John P called them turn ups. It was hot around Boston so any local action was kept quiet. A lot of people who didn't know any better said J.P never set one down. Three dead game Colby dogs I have had were Sport, Buddy, and Hobo. I think I have some good ones now, but to say a dog that is still living dead game is wishful thinking. None of these three dogs ever made a turn in there life or before they left it. I have over a dozen old Colby pedigrees around the house, and I cant find one of the dogs in them Mr. Pete Sparks mentioned in a recent copy of Bloodlines, I'm sure he was mistaken.

Back in about 1933 in Chicago Bruce Johnson introduced me to Chuck Doyle, at the time he had a brindle bitch with a bad hind leg that was about to whelp. About a year and a half later we matched a 38 pound dog we bought from Jim Corrington, against one of these pups we had Old Sandy in about fair chain shape after all this rookie Doyle couldn't beat us wise old heads, he didn't miss it though I think it lasted about 20 minutes Doyle's dog just waved Sandy around like a flag, and he started looking over his shoulder for help so Bruce threw in the sponge. Doyle's dog wasn't even warmed up yet. I believe Tudor is in a class by himself, as a dog fighter I've read about different men being called tops in the business but, if they come close to Tudor's record they must have been matching dogs on another planet.

When Tudor and Art Nemecheck ran a pit they won 23 UKC fights in one month, that's more than myself and a lot of other guys had in a lifetime, win or lose. It wasn't to long back that Tudor had a challenge in Bloodlines to match three dogs for $1,000 with him losing the grand if he didn't win all three go's. He made the first UKC Champion and John P Colby bred him. Tudor's wife Flo is just as good a judge of pit dogs as he is and probably the worlds best cook. A fan out here told me that J.P or his boys never ever saw a convention, I don't know what that proves, neither did the Farmer Brothers of Chicago Rip, Ryan, George Armitage or Red Considine and they were all pretty fair dog men.

Armitage taught us all a little about making it out here. He said a match well made was half won. Just before Armitage arrived out here Wiz Hubbard matched Hube Yates it was a bitch fight, (Lady vs. Trilby) and spotted him 9 pounds Wiz lost about $500.00 but picked his bitch up to save her. Armitage never fought many dogs in his life, but he sure matched them carefully. He thought Clark's Tramp was the best dog that ever lived. Tramp was pure Colby. We have a bunch of dogs out here now, the oldest of them are about 5 years old, some have fought at the convention two in old Mexico and so far they are outstanding. This Spencers Toby is one and Richesons Lark, Peggy, Monkey, Jeep ,Pete, and Shiner are a few more of them, that stood the test and are stand out pit dogs.

Five years ago I figured they would fall apart, as did a lot of other people some of course quit like any line will, but for a new cross Ed breeds them back in and sure gets some out standing pit dogs. He got his first ace Jeep by breeding his Jack Meeks Mouse to Hubbard's Gimp. He then bred Jeep to Hubbard's Sissy and raised his best bitch Spotty who is the dam or grand dam of all aforementioned, dogs there sire was Spike a dog Ed bought from Al Brown, so this old rugged cross is part Meeks breeding part Feeley and half Al Brown's Spike. Spike also had some Feeley blood in his back ground.

One of the best dogs I ever saw was a red nosed dog from Clas Conklin in Lenox South Dakota. I don't think his red nose had anything to do with the size of his heart. Though I've seen and had red nosed dogs that would quit like a turkey, when I start breeding for color I'll sure call them Staffordsires because that's all they will be in a couple of generations. In reading through several back Bloodlines there are lots of pictures of good looking dogs at stud with captions telling how they can fight. I've yet to see an ad with what is a lot more important a record of how some of his sons and daughters have fought and maybe a copy of his breeding. Leading horse magazines always list the achievements of the stallions as not all good performers, are good sires Braddock and Billy Sunday were two great dogs in the pit but never sired any outstanding pups.

I have an 8 year old 40 pound Colby dog Kayo farmed out with some friends he is the sire of Adams Botcher who won in 1 hour and 40 minutes in Mexico, I wasn't down there at the time but have a film of the fight, Botcher went uphill 4 pounds and beat a good dog holding one nose hold 30 minutes which is longer than a lot of dogs will fight. They were both dead game dogs and proved it. Botchers dam was a little cross bred bitch that quit in about 10 minutes I tried to talk Adams out of breeding her to Kayo but, he did and raised some good ones. Old Kayo is by Colbys Tinker out of Colbys Scarlett, he lost his teeth early but, stopped two bigger dogs Phil Iavlkner shipped in from California in 30 minutes each. They were ******** and Timmy. He also stopped a dog Black and Bill Anderson had called the Chicago dog in a little over 32 minutes and with no teeth he went 20 minutes with Lark. The best 50 pound dog we ever had out here, no one else cared to roll anything with Lark. And Leo White came out and wanted to see him go, now the only black mark on Kayo's record should be on mine.

Before Ed Ritcheson and I were partners I matched Kayo into a black dog that Ed had that I didn't think was much. Kayo had poor wind and I thought some Knox gelatin before the fight would give him an added push, he wouldn't drink the beef broth I put in it so I mixed another packet of gelatin in about half a pint of goat milk and it sure choked the old boy down. He gagged and slobbered after the first five minutes he kept coughing up big strings of phlegm. Ed's dog wasn't hurting him so I let it go after 56 or 58 minutes it was Kayo's turn to scratch and he waddled toward a couple steps gapping like a fish and was counted out he didn't lay down sit down or tuck his head in the corner, like a cur usually does. I picked him up and set him outside the pit. He was really wobbly and the whites of his eyes were solid red but he didn't flop down and rest. When Ed carried his black dog past to his car old Kayo staggered after him. I sure wasn't very proud of my conditioning but I made it up to the old boy, he's got a real good home up in the mountains with some swell people and has the run of there house and yard. I wont say any living dog is dead game but, I think a lesser dog than Kayo would have curled up and died after the going over Lark gave him.

A few of his better offspring are: Ken Barney's Sadie, Stewart Adams Honest John, General, Botcher and I have a 46 pound son of his that will do, his name is Colonel. I have a pure Lightner stud dog Lightners Tony, I'm sure Bill Lightner didn't keep him around just for a pet, but I will wait about 6 more months to brag about Tony as the dozen or so pups Ed and I have by him are a little young yet to set down hard but, they all act extra good and are hot to go. It's hard to get two or more people to agree on anything, I imagine that would apply even if they raised sheep. Well Bull Dog people are no exception unless that we are harder headed than most groups. I think it would be interesting if a lot of fanciers would write in with there opinion of the best dog, best conditioner, best handler etc. I'm sure it would create quite a bit of interest.

When Art Shinler from Detroit conditioned the Smith Brothers dog against Bruce Johnson and myself he did a top job. Red Considine had Lena in a good a shape as a dog can get in Chicago when she beat Berneros Jackie in about 1932, Jim Curry had his Midas dog about right as they get for that Spider dog some Texas boys brought to Lexington in 1936. but, I still have to pick Earl Tudor when he is really cracking as boss of them all. If you match him at a given weight you cant have a dog that is just a little better and win. The best dog I ever owned was Colbys Buddy. The roughest dog was Ed Ritchesons Lark. The one I'd hate most to go up against and try to beat would be Tudor's Demon about 10 years ago. I haven't the paper or time to tell you about all the curs I've had but, I'm sure we all get them, and it makes those scarce game ones worth all the more. I've got dogs tied to dogs at my place. Any over a year old have been out at least 30 minutes (off the chain). I call them half honest and think in shape will be worth a bet, with all the other dogs of all ages and the care involved the job gets a little old after 30 years but, I guess I'll have them 30 more if I live that long.

HOWARD HEINZL
Tempe Arizona 1955
(Sporting Dog Online)
 

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I met someone who had a pit they said was a colby/heinzel( I don't exactly know if I spelled it right) mix. It was a goodlooking dog....but it lacked that "pit" stature....it had NO muscle tone and just didn't give off that powerful look. Also, very submissive so I doubt there is gameness in it. It met our dog and immediately laid down and rolled over. Very friendly though (probably a good "pet")
Anyway, I know about Colby bloodline and how far it goes back and all that, but I have never heard of "heinzel" . According to them it goes back as far as "Old Family Red Nose", and is supposed to be "one of the best" old school lines???????
Does anyone know anything about them?
What
 
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