Joined
·
91 Posts
This is a big question what do you think the difference is in the way you breed your apbt compared from the way (BYB) do meaning what do you look for in the bred that's different than the (BYB) ??????
how many true dog man and women are around
1 - 20 of 82 Posts
Joined
·
1,104 Posts
Well for starters we should NOT be supporting a BYB...so there is no need to look for a BYB breeder. That's not to say that all "registered breeders" are perfect...you need to do your homework on any body that you buy a dog from imo.
Let's make a simple list of some things you should expect to see from a licensed breeder.
-health tests
-knowledgable of the breed
-looking to improve the breed
-pedigree from a recognized registry
-culls properly (covers all genetic defects or any HA)
-titles (both work or show)...preferably "work" for a apbt
Chances are you will NOT get any of the above from BYB
Edit**I'm at work so I tried to type as efficient as possible lol
Let's make a simple list of some things you should expect to see from a licensed breeder.
-health tests
-knowledgable of the breed
-looking to improve the breed
-pedigree from a recognized registry
-culls properly (covers all genetic defects or any HA)
-titles (both work or show)...preferably "work" for a apbt
Chances are you will NOT get any of the above from BYB
Edit**I'm at work so I tried to type as efficient as possible lol
Joined
·
91 Posts
Well said and very true
Joined
·
6,362 Posts
Im not licensed 
however I do produce good enough dogs not to receive any complaints yet.. I dont title my dogs either.. (chuckles) I do health test or rather natural selection, survival of the fittest. We do predator control I produce bulldogs, some may be bandog sized most will be 37lbs and down all of them are sure game fire.. nothing more nothing less.. However unless you know me personally or you have been vouched by someone who does then its not likely you'll ever get a dog from me, just how I roll.
however I do produce good enough dogs not to receive any complaints yet.. I dont title my dogs either.. (chuckles) I do health test or rather natural selection, survival of the fittest. We do predator control I produce bulldogs, some may be bandog sized most will be 37lbs and down all of them are sure game fire.. nothing more nothing less.. However unless you know me personally or you have been vouched by someone who does then its not likely you'll ever get a dog from me, just how I roll.
Joined
·
3,440 Posts
The way it really should be, when producing these Bulldogs, APBTs, etc the only way to ensure these hounds are properly worked and taken cared of (legally, of course) is to ensure you are limiting where your yard travels to.. Theres enough uneducated people out there that shouldn't own a dog, even in higher numbers when it comes to these "bull and terrier" breeds.. Therefore, breed for what you need, keep what you need and ensure all else produced are going to fine hands..Im not licensed
I don't breed however if a day comes, this is more or less how i will operate.. Some of THE best dogs come from private yards, there are very, VERY few public yards i would even remotely think of highly..
Joined
·
3,206 Posts
They are out there...believe me. And they breed in their backyard.
Joined
·
1,104 Posts
Lol!! A USDA License doesn't count for much other than help keep the breeder accountable.Im not licensed
I know there are a few that are the exception as far as titles go...but its really NOT just about the title...more about the PURPOSE
Joined
·
9,594 Posts
I agree with all of the above posts, but everyone seems to have left out the #1 most important thing on their lists... TEMPERAMENT! If we're going to breed for any purpose what so ever, the number one thing to look for should be temperament. Same rule applies if we go to a breeder. Even in a reputable breeder's yard, we need to be vigilant in preserving the main ingredient that makes these dogs so fantastic.
Joined
·
100 Posts
I am from Germany and the dog culture over there is entirely different from what I've seen over here.
It was quite a shock to see how different and how much fuzz there is about dogs. Honestly, there is too much fuzz, to little common sense.
My family is breeding working German Shepherds for over 30 years. Both my parents are involved with the breed for almost 50 years and I grew right into it. Right from the start we followed rules in how to deal with the dogs.
Things like "constantly taking the food away" wasn't practiced and is not practiced. We've always had up to five, unfixed, adult male Shepherds in the house and not once has there been a single incident with the dogs.
From the beginning we helped our parents to clean the kennels, exercise the dogs, feeding the dogs etc.
By the age of 14 I cleaned all those kennels, let the dogs run and fed the dogs myself without any kind or form of supervision.
If you'd let a 14 year old girl handle over a dozen adult Shepherds you'd be scrutinized by the public in a heartbeat and deemed irresponsible. Back then it was a completely normal thing and everybody in the family had to do his job.
My sister was bit by a neighbors Shepherd who was a farm dog and lived his life on a chain. Nobody ever would have killed the dog. People knew he was on a chain and had his issues so it was rather "You knew NOT to get too close to the dog." rather than "Kill the dog!"
In Germany you can't get papers without going through the breed survey and in order to get through the breed survey the dog has to be:
HD/ED tested and deemed healthy, BH (by the age of 15 months), AD (endurance test), IPO1 (SchH1) and have a show result, then the dog can be gekoered meaning deemed breed worthy.
Both, dam and sire needs the breed survey in order to get papers from the German SV.
Over here, you register the dog with the AKC and you start breeding. You can have AKC registered dogs and still be a horrible BYB.
I've never seen puppies being sold out of the back of a truck in Germany. You don't see stray dogs, it happens but it's extremely rare.
Yeah, we have hoarders and all the common problems with bad owners, abusive owners, we have BSL too but it's not as bad as over here.
We don't have Kill Shelters either.
The first time I was confronted with some of the worst owners was when I got married to my husband and we moved on the military post. People only took out their dogs once a day, to pee and poop, turned around and took them back into the house. That's it. When they pcs'ed they dumped the dog with somebody else.
The German Shelter didn't even accept American dogs anymore because it was an epidemic every PCS rotation and if they found an American dog they contacted the military vets and it went through the chain of command.
Once we moved to the US I found a Stray the second day. Right in front of our door. His owner would simply shove the dog outside when he left the house and the dog ran away. He travelled four miles.
Our neighbors simply opened the door and let her three filthy, sickly dogs outside for about an hour. They always showed up at our door steps.
I've never seen anything like that before and of course, I'm the evil Shepherd lady with the evil dogs.
Now that we live in a nice neighborhood we still have to deal with loose dogs laying in the middle of the road or going at you.
You can't take your dogs anywhere. Not on the bus, train, malls, stores... it's an extremely unfriendly country towards dogs. People see your dog as public property. They sneak up behind you and pet your dogs without asking.
A dog is expected to endure anything and everything. People humanize dogs to a point where it becomes unhealthy for both, dog and human.
Breeders... boy oh boy... people get two dogs and then want a puppy out of that dog because of sentimental reasons without realizing that it's not going to be the same. Every dog is different.
Most breeders don't have a clue about genetics, health care, let alone can't even read their own dogs.
Create designer breeds, breed the son to the dam (seen that online with a Pit Bull breeder and was like "Seriously?", they were extremely proud of themselves too and then they wonder why they have a bad reputation? Because of idiots like them!), just breed to breed and without having a single motivation to better the breed or with any regards or knowledge that they create an extreme bottleneck.
There is no common dog sense anymore. It doesn't matter which breed you are looking at you see the same thing.
All I have to do is to go through the topics on here and on the Shepherd Forum and all I can do is to shake my head about the lack of common dog sense and then those people start breeding without knowing what they produce and why they are producing it. They just want to make a couple of hundred bucks and have a puppy for themselves.
So what is the difference between a BYB and a reputable breeder?
It's knowledge and purpose, health and the conditions the dog is kept in.
Most BYB's can't even spell their breeds name. How am I supposed to trust them with everything else if they don't even know how to spell their breeds name correctly?
It was quite a shock to see how different and how much fuzz there is about dogs. Honestly, there is too much fuzz, to little common sense.
My family is breeding working German Shepherds for over 30 years. Both my parents are involved with the breed for almost 50 years and I grew right into it. Right from the start we followed rules in how to deal with the dogs.
Things like "constantly taking the food away" wasn't practiced and is not practiced. We've always had up to five, unfixed, adult male Shepherds in the house and not once has there been a single incident with the dogs.
From the beginning we helped our parents to clean the kennels, exercise the dogs, feeding the dogs etc.
By the age of 14 I cleaned all those kennels, let the dogs run and fed the dogs myself without any kind or form of supervision.
If you'd let a 14 year old girl handle over a dozen adult Shepherds you'd be scrutinized by the public in a heartbeat and deemed irresponsible. Back then it was a completely normal thing and everybody in the family had to do his job.
My sister was bit by a neighbors Shepherd who was a farm dog and lived his life on a chain. Nobody ever would have killed the dog. People knew he was on a chain and had his issues so it was rather "You knew NOT to get too close to the dog." rather than "Kill the dog!"
In Germany you can't get papers without going through the breed survey and in order to get through the breed survey the dog has to be:
HD/ED tested and deemed healthy, BH (by the age of 15 months), AD (endurance test), IPO1 (SchH1) and have a show result, then the dog can be gekoered meaning deemed breed worthy.
Both, dam and sire needs the breed survey in order to get papers from the German SV.
Over here, you register the dog with the AKC and you start breeding. You can have AKC registered dogs and still be a horrible BYB.
I've never seen puppies being sold out of the back of a truck in Germany. You don't see stray dogs, it happens but it's extremely rare.
Yeah, we have hoarders and all the common problems with bad owners, abusive owners, we have BSL too but it's not as bad as over here.
We don't have Kill Shelters either.
The first time I was confronted with some of the worst owners was when I got married to my husband and we moved on the military post. People only took out their dogs once a day, to pee and poop, turned around and took them back into the house. That's it. When they pcs'ed they dumped the dog with somebody else.
The German Shelter didn't even accept American dogs anymore because it was an epidemic every PCS rotation and if they found an American dog they contacted the military vets and it went through the chain of command.
Once we moved to the US I found a Stray the second day. Right in front of our door. His owner would simply shove the dog outside when he left the house and the dog ran away. He travelled four miles.
Our neighbors simply opened the door and let her three filthy, sickly dogs outside for about an hour. They always showed up at our door steps.
I've never seen anything like that before and of course, I'm the evil Shepherd lady with the evil dogs.
Now that we live in a nice neighborhood we still have to deal with loose dogs laying in the middle of the road or going at you.
You can't take your dogs anywhere. Not on the bus, train, malls, stores... it's an extremely unfriendly country towards dogs. People see your dog as public property. They sneak up behind you and pet your dogs without asking.
A dog is expected to endure anything and everything. People humanize dogs to a point where it becomes unhealthy for both, dog and human.
Breeders... boy oh boy... people get two dogs and then want a puppy out of that dog because of sentimental reasons without realizing that it's not going to be the same. Every dog is different.
Most breeders don't have a clue about genetics, health care, let alone can't even read their own dogs.
Create designer breeds, breed the son to the dam (seen that online with a Pit Bull breeder and was like "Seriously?", they were extremely proud of themselves too and then they wonder why they have a bad reputation? Because of idiots like them!), just breed to breed and without having a single motivation to better the breed or with any regards or knowledge that they create an extreme bottleneck.
There is no common dog sense anymore. It doesn't matter which breed you are looking at you see the same thing.
All I have to do is to go through the topics on here and on the Shepherd Forum and all I can do is to shake my head about the lack of common dog sense and then those people start breeding without knowing what they produce and why they are producing it. They just want to make a couple of hundred bucks and have a puppy for themselves.
So what is the difference between a BYB and a reputable breeder?
It's knowledge and purpose, health and the conditions the dog is kept in.
Most BYB's can't even spell their breeds name. How am I supposed to trust them with everything else if they don't even know how to spell their breeds name correctly?
Joined
·
717 Posts
In my opinion, what separates a BYB from Legit Breeders, is that the BYBs dont have an ultimate goal in their breeding, but to make a quick buck.
A legit breeder, will tell you who would be best to breed your pup/dog too, and what the outcomes would be.
A legit breeder will tell you what you should expect of your new puppy.
A legit breeder will keep in touch with you too see how your puppy is developing.
A legit breeder will not breed to anything that has four legs.
Another sad thing to this, is that most BYB dogs wind up being neglected and abused, because most people who buy dogs try to cheap out on a purebred, and arent satisfied with the quality of dog they received. Next thing you know, their dog is ranned over, abused, stray, or in a shelter.
I think the good people are the one who get the short end of the stick because at the same time we try to rescue BYB dogs from shelters, from a bad home, from an idiot breeder, and at the end of the day, the breeder only breeds more dogs because his last batch sold out.
A legit breeder, will tell you who would be best to breed your pup/dog too, and what the outcomes would be.
A legit breeder will tell you what you should expect of your new puppy.
A legit breeder will keep in touch with you too see how your puppy is developing.
A legit breeder will not breed to anything that has four legs.
Another sad thing to this, is that most BYB dogs wind up being neglected and abused, because most people who buy dogs try to cheap out on a purebred, and arent satisfied with the quality of dog they received. Next thing you know, their dog is ranned over, abused, stray, or in a shelter.
I think the good people are the one who get the short end of the stick because at the same time we try to rescue BYB dogs from shelters, from a bad home, from an idiot breeder, and at the end of the day, the breeder only breeds more dogs because his last batch sold out.
Joined
·
3,058 Posts
Things I would look for
Ability, temperment, structure,
Ability is broad scope the dog will need to Excel in any task asked of it. While maintaning a proper apbt temperment. Alert outgoing and not ha. Lastly I hope that while keeping proper bulldogs I hope to produce minimal falts. A nice all around bulldog.
Like FH I have a ring of close friends who I have gotten dogs from and learned about the dogs from. Unless referred by them known personally by myself. Then getting dogs from me is most likely not going to possible when the time comes.
Ability, temperment, structure,
Ability is broad scope the dog will need to Excel in any task asked of it. While maintaning a proper apbt temperment. Alert outgoing and not ha. Lastly I hope that while keeping proper bulldogs I hope to produce minimal falts. A nice all around bulldog.
Like FH I have a ring of close friends who I have gotten dogs from and learned about the dogs from. Unless referred by them known personally by myself. Then getting dogs from me is most likely not going to possible when the time comes.
Joined
·
9,147 Posts
as a buyer I think I would look for temperment , structure, goal and purpose . to have titles on the dogs isnt important to me honestly alot of great dogs never see a show ring and when you live somewhere where there arent shows for your breed its a little harder. At the same time pedigree and the names on it arent as important as temperment and structure.
I think a reputable breeder will go the extra steps to ensure you are a good match for the breed vs a BYB who is all about getting that cash. A reputable one follows up with you througout the dogs life to make sure everything is going well vs BYB is done once that money exchanges.
Reputable breeder will also have health records, pedigrees with a reputable registry, and require you to sign contracts with restrictions on breeding, pet homes, show home ect as well as some sort of health guarantee against genetic defaults. Also ontop of that most will do home checks if able too { if shippping its a bit harder} but offer advice and help if ever needed and will always take one of there dogs back at any time if the contract is voided or if something comes up. BYB cares nothing about what happens after the money is exchanged and good luck at getting them to step up if needed.
Dont get me wrong im sure there are BYB's that will do some of the above like the shots and papers but very few have I seen will take a dog back if needed. You can tell when someone is in it for money and those who are in it for the dogs. Also anyone reputable will have no issue having you over to the kennel and be able to show and answer any questions on the parents and there set up, BYB's can be shady and secretive I have found and not always have the right info when asked.
I think a reputable breeder will go the extra steps to ensure you are a good match for the breed vs a BYB who is all about getting that cash. A reputable one follows up with you througout the dogs life to make sure everything is going well vs BYB is done once that money exchanges.
Reputable breeder will also have health records, pedigrees with a reputable registry, and require you to sign contracts with restrictions on breeding, pet homes, show home ect as well as some sort of health guarantee against genetic defaults. Also ontop of that most will do home checks if able too { if shippping its a bit harder} but offer advice and help if ever needed and will always take one of there dogs back at any time if the contract is voided or if something comes up. BYB cares nothing about what happens after the money is exchanged and good luck at getting them to step up if needed.
Dont get me wrong im sure there are BYB's that will do some of the above like the shots and papers but very few have I seen will take a dog back if needed. You can tell when someone is in it for money and those who are in it for the dogs. Also anyone reputable will have no issue having you over to the kennel and be able to show and answer any questions on the parents and there set up, BYB's can be shady and secretive I have found and not always have the right info when asked.
Joined
·
100 Posts
Honestly, I don't have an issue with it when a breeder is breeding for profit. Breeders have a tremendous amount of costs to cover. Training, Feeding, Shots for the puppies, health evaluations etc. If a reputable breeder also breeds for profit and is breeding quality dogs for a living, titling, certifying and trialing than there is absolutely no problem with a profit.
Also, it all comes down to dedication. Last year I drove 9570 Miles just for search training alone. There are Schutzhund people out there that drive even more.
Dogs are expensive. Breeding IS expensive. If you don't have the money to cover a C-section and/or medication for the puppies, don't breed.
Chances are, if you don't have the money, something WILL happen and you might not only loose an entire litter but the bitch itself as well.
Also, it all comes down to dedication. Last year I drove 9570 Miles just for search training alone. There are Schutzhund people out there that drive even more.
Dogs are expensive. Breeding IS expensive. If you don't have the money to cover a C-section and/or medication for the puppies, don't breed.
Chances are, if you don't have the money, something WILL happen and you might not only loose an entire litter but the bitch itself as well.
Joined
·
3,206 Posts
How many of the old dogmen, you know...whose names appear on true gamebred pedigrees, actually adhered to the standards that have been suggested here? There was one reason they bred these dogs....it didn't matter how pretty the dogs were or what kind of physical examination they could pass or what title they could achieve. There was only one test that mattered. I suppose that's the difference between now and then, and when you're shelling out the dough, I somewhat understand.
Joined
·
16,258 Posts
Honestly as long as the breeder is being responsible for what they produce that is my main concern. Breeders have different goals and different standards of what they think is right. However as long as they actually see to it that their pet quality dogs are not bred and their dogs are not part of the problem or over population, I don't care much else about whether they choose adhere to what society now says is"proper".
Joined
·
368 Posts
This id true but in this day and age the amount of bybs and shelter "pits" are beyond out of control. If the legal system could regulate who can and cant bree dogs things would hopefully weed it self out. Unfortunately this is near impossible and bsl is the only other alternative they can turn too still not solving the problem and hurting the only ones that matter... The dogs and the responsable breeder/owner
1 - 20 of 82 Posts
Join the discussion
