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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I read somewhere online today that the color blue in apbt's came from inbreeding? And that old dogger's considered this a major flaw thus culling those dogs because it was not desirable to them. So the blue in apbt's became less common. Any thoughts on this? Would you say it could be true?
 

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LIES ITS ALL LIES!

HAHA I don't know it could be true. Now though the blue color is probably one of the most common 'rare' colors ever.
 

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I heard that from some where but MSK said some thing once about the line of dogs she has and that the lady wanted to prove that blue dogs weren't any diff from others and that's what she did. IDK though you might ask her exactly.
 

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I heard that from some where but MSK said some thing once about the line of dogs she has and that the lady wanted to prove that blue dogs weren't any diff from others and that's what she did. IDK though you might ask her exactly.
PROVING the dog really has nothing to do with the color. I have two blues that are already proving themselves. This is more about where the color CAME from origionally. :)
 

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True it's not rare anymore and yes they were probably linebred to consistently produce the color blue...a diluted black. Some old dogmen saw a few blues come and go but they considered them to be a fault and most were culled. Some real proven dogs have been blue or gray in color.
 

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I find it hard to believe that a blue dog that was tested and proven would be culled just for its coat color,i know its been said alot but were is it writen that this actually happened,or is it just speculation?
I figure that if a blue dog was found to be a gamedog,it would be kept around to make its owner some money,since this is the main reason dog fighting existed,MONEY.
Many dog men hated the rednose dogs,but they were kept around because they consistantly produced..
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Well how is it possible that a dogs color could prevent them from being game? A color is just a color is it not? I don't understand the logic behind old dogger's culling blue dogs because of color and I seriously doubt that a blue coat could make a dog less game than a red or a black coat I am having a hard time understanding why blue dogs were considered so inferior to any other color dog I have not heard anything worth wild that would make logical sense other than dogger's felt that blue dogs were inferior based on their color. I would love to see something factual about this because it sounds so stupid
 

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yeah...it sounds stupid. I have heard that they were culled because they carried a mutated gene...but is this just speculation? perhaps. We may never know. Being as the dogmen didn't breed like to like blue dogs to narrow down the gene pool and produce many consistent blue dogs like breeders today... you would probably only see a few blue dogs back then.. and i'm sure if they got their hands on a proven blue dog, they would have cared less about the coat color as long as the dog had what it took to be a champ.
 

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I don't understand the genetics of blue, but if it's a recessive trait, there probably was some inbreeding going on to help bring it out. I've always read that the less genetic diversity in a line -- meaning, the tighter you inbreed -- the more recessive traits come out.
 

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No it's not docked it's mid-wag. Lol! I have always been told the culling of blue dogs was because the blue is a genetic mutation of black and white. Dunno really but my mentor has been around some old and new dog men and this is the way he understands it.
 

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Blue dogs were said to be tested and fought,again there is no photos to back this up,but the story of the old lightener dogs and "Colorado imp" are easily accessible on the net,and these blue dogs were proclaimed to be game but also in the case of the colarado imp dog,they were beaten by dogs of other colors and rumored to be used in the initial foundation stock for the am staff by corvino since he did have a hand in the am staffs creation,or so its written,,,,,
Now it is very possible for certain colors to carry certain traits based on the goals of the breeders through proper or improper selection. and i do believe that the majority of blue colored dogs are not game simply because they are bred for looks first and foremost as well as many being basically mutts,and even when bred in purity they still just aren't bred to be game,although it is easy to suspect that some blue dogs will be through backs just as some am staffs are,and possably these dogs could carry the game trait,but it would have to be tested for and if its not we'd never know.
I'm not buying this stuff about blue dogs being culled no matter what drive or temperament they had,it doesn't make sense and these dogs were matched and it has been documented...
 

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Hey everyone, new here. :)

Blue is a dilution of black, caused by the gene for dilution. Not a combination of black and white, or a mutated gene. Back in the day of the gamedog, dogs were not bred for color, therefore the combination to create the blue dog probably occurred only rarely, because so many dominant genes exist within the breed, meaning that the majority of the population would also carry these dominant genes. And within the realm of gamedogs, this gene pool was even further restricted, limiting the appearance of recessive genes being displayed.

Today, the focus is appearance. Gamedogs are far the minority, and dogs are bred for size, color, and body type more than anything. I feel that breeders efforts should be to make a functional, true to heart, yet aesthetically pleasing animals.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hey everyone, new here. :)

Blue is a dilution of black, caused by the gene for dilution. Not a combination of black and white, or a mutated gene. Back in the day of the gamedog, dogs were not bred for color, therefore the combination to create the blue dog probably occurred only rarely, because so many dominant genes exist within the breed, meaning that the majority of the population would also carry these dominant genes. And within the realm of gamedogs, this gene pool was even further restricted, limiting the appearance of recessive genes being displayed.

Today, the focus is appearance. Gamedogs are far the minority, and dogs are bred for size, color, and body type more than anything. I feel that breeders efforts should be to make a functional, true to heart, yet aesthetically pleasing animals.
I second that :clap: Welcome I see a pretty blue puppy in your avitar :)
 

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I have to disagree on the statement that breeders should include making aesthetically pleasing animals in their program. Many do, but if we're really sticking to the basis of the breed, the beauty should be in the dog's performance. The problem becomes that when you start breeding "pretty" dogs, then that's when you get breeders feeling that X size, X head, and X color are prettier than others, so they focus more heavily on that.

Now that's not to say that I have ugly dogs. LOL But performance and adhering to the standard are the most important things IMO. If there is room enough left over that a breeder can include their personal preference, then that's great. But appearance shouldn't be in the top 10 things that one looks for. And if it is, it should be number 10.

JMO.
 

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I didn't say it should be the main focus; however, dogfighting is illegal. The dog's purpose for existence is gone, spare for pet ownership, athletic sports, and obedience competitions. The dog's purpose has changed. In essence, the breed has already split into two categories, further than just AmStaff and APBT. But the APBT is splitting as well. The small wiry gamedogs that are purpose bred, and the standard common pit bull the majority of us have, with varying amounts of game drive and HUGE variance in appearance.

My point is, that dogs that are appealing to they eye are less likely to be abused, abandoned, or worse. They have some value to people in that repsect, especially if they are ignorant to the breed.

I have seen gamedogs in person. They are not very great looking, most unrecognizable as what is imagined to be a "pit bull" they are very terrierish and small, plain and muscular. Most people would not want one as a pet, and the drive is such that it must be carefully monitored and supervised.
They are amazing animals in their true form, but fairly rare and very expensive. But because of the lack of aesthetic appeal, unknowing people can look at a champion, worth twenty grand, and wouldn't offer you five dollars for him.
Thus, the pit bull of today must be a blend of good looks, adventurous and fearless attitude and undaunting loyalty IMO, simply for the survival of the breed. A balanced, thoughtful approach is necessary. Fighting is no longer accpetable, therefore I don't see a problem with the evolution of the breed, as long as there is a dedicated community that still keeps the old strains alive, for the traits that separate them from all breeds.

But for me, and most other pit bull owners, the handsome and fun loving pit bull of today, is all we need. (Not bully style. I dislike them immensley when they are marketed as "pit bull", I tolerate them as "american bullys".)

So why not breed for the total package? That is my goal.
 

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I know what you seem to be saying but breeding just for a "look" is not a good road to travel genetically. You are correct that the majority of people are not equipped to handle a true Game Dog or really even know why they are considered Game for that matter. I will skip the comment that "they are not very good looking in person" since that is subjective.

For the overall health of ANY BREED, breeding for asthetic reasons usually leads to health problem generations down the road. Yes, I am talking about well known breeds that are shown on a regular basis. Using a small population of "show type" pure breds leads to a closed gene pool and a magnification of problematic recessive genes. Natural Selection tends to create a Heterozygous population where no one gene combination is ALWAYS being passed on...Natural Selection vitalizes the breed and stimulates healthy offspring down the road.

True Game APBTs are usually less expensive than Designer Breeds...but breeders of APBTs that breed for performance are picky about who gets thier dogs.
 
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