[k8nkane]

So, I've been debating for the past couple of weeks on getting Kane a martingale collar. He used to be better about walking on a leash when he was younger, but has recently begun to pull pretty bad. He's not dragging me up and down the street, but he's definitely pushing his limits.

I usually pull out the old "be a tree" method and he's doing okay with that -- except that now we look really stupid going down the street because he'll pull. I'll stop. He'll sit. We start walking. He'll pull. I'll stop. He'll sit. Etc. :rofl: I've tried the "suddenly walk the other way" method and he doesn't care. He doesn't mind walking the same 10 steps over and over again, ha.

I'm assuming the reason the "be a tree" method isn't working correctly is because there isn't enough correction and, from what I've been reading on martingales, they could provide that? I'm not really sure and am really looking for other's opinions on it -- and any other advice I could get on solving this problem.

Please do not suggest a prong or choke collar. That is too harsh for Kane.

I should mention that I also tried both the gentle leader (halti around the nose) as well as the easy-walk harness (leash clipped in the front). The gentle leader rode up by his eyes and made him walk while rubbing his face in the ground and he doesn't mind walking sideways with the harness, lol.

 

[davidfitness83]

A martingale is only going to choke him, you need to take an obedience class so the dog learns to focus. With the martingale you are going to have yor dog choking, spitting and coughing out of breath. The dog needs to learn what you are asking of him and a choke collar is not going to do that.

 

[Aireal]

I must disagree if fitted correctly a martingale is an excellent devise it will tighten but NOT choke as that is the whole point of the collar (otherwise italian greyhounds wouldn't be able to use them so effectively), wear with a choke collar if not done right they do just that... choke.
also side note, if the gentle leader rode up to the eye you did not have it fitted properly and need to make the mouth area smaller, he may not have so much room so huge pant or catch a ball but can drink water pant some and once he understands and walks loose leash you can loosen it again.
Besides that I can’t offer much help as I am a pinch collar girl myself for all the mutts even Lucy the uber submissive one.

 

[beccaboo]

Lol. Prong and choke collars aren't cruel they just help the dog be more sensitive to what you're asking. If you don't want to work with those to get him to pay attention to you better you can try the obed class or work on your 'watch me' command. Gentle leaders aren't good for dogs backs so would skip that altogether. I've used to prong on n off with both my pups and while it works better to walk them after play time and exercising them, I can switch between the prong and flat and get almost the same response. The stop sit walk works especially if he is sensitive to your voice. Not sure it that makes sense but I use it with George when he is on his flat collar. Huh uh and No go a long way with that boy. By the end of last summer I had him walkin on a loose leash. Were a lil rusty now but we often walk zig zags so he'll pay attention to my lead and not get in front of me. A few times of walkin into him or walkin totally away from him and he catches on My boy is super food motivated too so then training sessions are fun and he tries harder

 

[davidfitness83]

what is the point of a martingale collar? to produce a slight choke correction so the dog learns to respond as the collar gets tighter. Our breed is known to have high pain threshold, if the dog has no clue what it means to walk next to the handler a proper manner a prong collar, a collar made out of barbwire will not teach that.

This is why you teach a dog in an obedience class how to walk on the leash with distractions. The dog needs to learn leash manners and focus, this is not something that happens over night or something that a dog will learn automatically from getting choked or poked by a collar. Most dogs that walk well on prong collars that were never taught how to walk on a leash will go buckwild once he is on a different collar.

 

[davidfitness83]

All I have to say is at dog shows you see handlers walking 100+ pound mastiff type dogs with a tiny choke chain. If they can have such a gigantic beast walk next to them at a show in front of hundreds of people, noises, distractions and other intact dogs, that means it can be done and it is just a training process.

 

[davidfitness83]

Big dogs tiny collars:

 

[Aireal]

Yes it is the training process and as she said in different post she does not get very far via harsher corrections which is why she does not wish to use a pinch or choke, as far as the martingale collars go there not really meant for pit or pit like dogs at all, they are designed for sight hounds that have very small heads as to keep them from escaping the collar, they are what I use once I have trained my to a pinch to get back to a normal collar, as the sound of the chain is all it takes to correct. I can tell you have had SEVERAL dog on them and not one has ever just sat there and choked themselves lol they correct appropriately WITHOUT choking as they have a stopping point thus there design. So while you fancy the idea of huge dogs on tiny choke and that is just fine it is not what the OP is asking for. She is requesting help on getting her sensitive dog to walk loose leash WITHOUT a pinch or a choke so no matter if you like those devices or not she has states quite clearly she does not wish to use them. So even if most pitbulls have a high tolerance to pain it does not mean that some might not be very sensitive to it. Remember this is the dog that peed himself when she approached just because she had popped him a couple of time, a pop not a beating! You have to consider the dog itself not always just the breed with picking your training style and tools.

 

[davidfitness83]

I dont understand the questions then? the dog should be sent to obedience class. She already mentioned that the dog displayed deffensiveness towards another dog. If the dog is pulling when he sees distractions it is not the type of collar she should be seeking, it should be training methods. that was the point I was trying to make, it seems that she is having trouble with the dog pulling correct? so a martingale or even a 2 inch collar is fine but the point is to let her know it is not the collar but the training. No collar is going to work on a dog that gets excited and pulls when there are distractions no matter how submissive it is.

 

[davidfitness83]

This perfectly illustrates a perfect focus on handler with no tension on leash. The only reason why I am showing this is to give the OP hope and proof that if these people can do it with such huge dogs, she should be able to as well

 

[k8nkane]

Yes it is the training process and as she said in different post she does not get very far via harsher corrections which is why she does not wish to use a pinch or choke, as far as the martingale collars go there not really meant for pit or pit like dogs at all, they are designed for sight hounds that have very small heads as to keep them from escaping the collar, they are what I use once I have trained my to a pinch to get back to a normal collar, as the sound of the chain is all it takes to correct. I can tell you have had SEVERAL dog on them and not one has ever just sat there and choked themselves lol they correct appropriately WITHOUT choking as they have a stopping point thus there design. So while you fancy the idea of huge dogs on tiny choke and that is just fine it is not what the OP is asking for. She is requesting help on getting her sensitive dog to walk loose leash WITHOUT a pinch or a choke so no matter if you like those devices or not she has states quite clearly she does not wish to use them. So even if most pitbulls have a high tolerance to pain it does not mean that some might not be very sensitive to it. Remember this is the dog that peed himself when she approached just because she had popped him a couple of time, a pop not a beating! You have to consider the dog itself not always just the breed with picking your training style and tools.

Thank you Aireal.

David, I can appreciate what you are saying, but your facts are wrong on the martingale. The martingale has an in-built mechanism to tighten and correct, but not to choke. They were originally meant for sighthounds who's heads are smaller than their necks and who are very sensitive to their owners. Most sighthound owners wouldn't get very far with their dogs if they used something harsher; their dog would shut down. I've done a lot of reading online and talked to some other owners who use them and this is what I see consistently.

I plan to use the martingale as a TRAINING TOOL in order to get him back onto a flat collar permanently. I already have plans to get him into a basic obedience class next month just to get our basics tightened, but was wondering if the martingale would work to provide the correction more immediately for Kane in the meantime. Right now he is at the point where a verbal correction has him going "Oh, nice, ok, whatever" and he slows down enough to have the leash a little bit less tight but still pulled. lol.

I'm not going to traipse around Petsmart with it on him, lol. That's just stupid. He isn't ready for that much distraction yet. :hammer:

 

[k8nkane]

And I understand the hope you're trying to give me, thanks, but those are show dogs who have been trained for that since they were itty-bitty, haha.

YOU are actually my hope. I've seen your vids with Bernie, mister.

 

[aimee235]

I don't think a martingale would work. They are meant for a different purpose as Aireal said.

I would go back to square one. Start leash walking training all over with him. As well as teaching him to "watch". It would be really hard for him to watch you and be pulling at the same time. Walmart sells some no pull harnesses that worked for my moms dog.

 

[MY MIKADO]

Have you tried holding a treat in your hand next to his nose. Walk with saying "heel" after a 10-15 steps let him have the treat and get another one in your hand and start all oer again. Once you get him to focus on your hand st your side you can start to use less treats. I have seen this work on other dogs. I have not had to use it but it might work.

 

[Sadie]

This perfectly illustrates a perfect focus on handler with no tension on leash. The only reason why I am showing this is to give the OP hope and proof that if these people can do it with such huge dogs, she should be able to as well

LOL I am sorry I have to laugh in an ADBA show ring it doesn't quite go down like that:rofl: The Bulldogs focus is on the other dog not the owner typically and no amount of obedience is going to solve that. You need to hold on for dear life just to keep them from taking off with you LMAO!!

 

[k8nkane]

Do the no-pull harnesses @ Walmart work by leashing in front? If so, Kane doesn't care. He'll walk sideways. :rofl:

Have you tried holding a treat in your hand next to his nose. Walk with saying "heel" after a 10-15 steps let him have the treat and get another one in your hand and start all oer again. Once you get him to focus on your hand st your side you can start to use less treats. I have seen this work on other dogs. I have not had to use it but it might work.

I haven't. I'll have to wait for the weather to get a little better though to do this outside. It's flurrying and -3 right now, haha.

 

[davidfitness83]

And I understand the hope you're trying to give me, thanks, but those are show dogs who have been trained for that since they were itty-bitty, haha.

YOU are actually my hope. I've seen your vids with Bernie, mister.

I did not mean that it would choke him to a point of a choke collar it is less harsh but the mechanism is still the same. The collar tightening making the dog stop pulling because of the tension on the neck. I tried to use that when we took the class with Bernie but I did not like it I honestly felt that I could correct him much better with the 2 inch stillwater collar because If I popped the collar It had a greater surface area so it was almost as If I was grabbing him by the neck with a hand and pulling him towards me lol I dont know if that makes any sense haha. His eyes also started getting blood shot from it but then again every dog is different. I was blessed with a cool laid back lazy food craving dog lol

Thank you for the compliments on our leash work, it is not done yet I have to keep training and bonding more with Bernie and I get lazy . The only advice I can give you which worked for us is to make it a game, if you plan on using vocal commands which I do. You cannot put him in a situation where you have repeat the commands so many times that the commands get overriden because they do not work. What I mean is, anytime you have to tell a command more than two times the dog is ignoring the command learning to count. Usually as you keep repeating the command you get frustrated and your tone changes and eventually the dog listens. THe goal here is to get it right on the 1st time and with a normal tone of voice. Trust me it is very hard and I still work on it everyday, but this is the greatest achievement.

I use a harness for freedom and a collar for obedience. Switch from collar to harness. Start with collar work and food at home with 0 distractions. when you go outside for potty stuff while you are trying to teach collar manners use a harness and let him go nuts, eventually the dog will get the point that harness =reward fun freedom collar = walk next to my master and ignore the world.

Do daily sessions with the collar and treats, teach the dog to focus on the treat and eventually move it up to your face. This will teach the dog eye contact. Make it fun and make it a great experience, use a word or command to teach the dog to focus when you begin walking. Also teach him to change pace, walk slow and walk fast, change direction stop make sure that dog knows at everytime that you direct pace, direction and motion. Also make sure the class you attend allows treats, without treats I couldn't have done anything with Bernie.

I have to tape a session so you see what I mean, I know couple of people have asked me about it. With this awful snow, cold weather and wifey pregnat I haven't been able to but I will see if I can get it done this weekend. I am not a pro and dont claim to be. I have read many theories on training, dealt with a very reactive dog in the past and applied all the theory with Bernie and it worked. It may not work with everydog but I believe that a dog's love, loyalty and respect for its master can override all distractions. It is just a matter of creating the bond and friendship

 

[davidfitness83]

LOL I am sorry I have to laugh in an ADBA show ring it doesn't quite go down like that:rofl: The Bulldogs focus is on the other dog not the owner typically and no amount of obedience is going to solve that. You need to hold on for dear life just to keep them from taking off with you LMAO!!

I heard the judges like it lol:rofl:

I believe Lisa owns dogs that would fit the standard in the ADBA and I know someone else in florida that has gamebred dogs and they seem to do fine in public. A dog can bluff and act a fool on the leash but that doesn't make it a figher, the quiet ones are the ones that don't waste the energy on display but save it for battle. My chiwawa acts a fool on the leash but he aint a figher lol

If these people can have a 15 neapolitan mastiffs from killing each other and focusing on their handler at a show, a few 40 pound bulldogs can certantly be trained to walk on a leash and ignore a dog.

Off leash is a different scenario but I believe any dog can be taught to walk on a leash and any dog can be taught obedience no matter what they were bred to do.

 

[Sadie]

Oh yeah the judges love to see HOT bulldogs in the ring they LOVE IT ... It's not so pleasant for us owner's though holding on tight and praying the guy next to you doesn't get too close LMAO!!! There are some who will sit nice an quiet but most of them act a fool.

 

[davidfitness83]

Oh yeah the judges love to see HOT bulldogs in the ring they LOVE IT ... It's not so pleasant for us owner's though holding on tight and praying the guy next to you doesn't get too close LMAO!!! There are some who will sit nice an quiet but most of them act a fool.

They either growl and bark like maniacs and or they play the innocent whinney card so they can get to close enough to bite something lol after my first dog I got a crash course on that lol