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i have recently been searching for dogs for my kennel i am 17 years old i am young but i have a true love for the breed i spend most of my time learning about this breed i have been looking for tri colored of this breed and i came across merle and i did research on this color and i found that there was a health problem with this color and that this was the product of cross breeding. is it possible to breed the genetic health problems out and also breed the cross out but keep the color in ..??? and it is also not excepted in the breed
 

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If it is not a breed standard why would you want to breed for it?
 
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what are your motives? do u want to do this for the fin of creating a cool coat pattern and keeping apts pure bred? if so sorry no can do. no matter what u do, any strain of apbt with merle in it is a mix. just like with the whole blue thing. even if it was possible to take the health issues away, it wouldnt change the fact there is diluted blood in a breed that already has specific set of standards and for quite some time. there is no way out of the fact you would be breeding mutts. and i think the health part of your question is like kinda this...can albino people learn to reproduce to keep albino looks but lose related health issues...i think not simply because they have those issues because they are albino. merle apbts have health issues becaue the merle gene causes not only a funky sort of coat patter but also health issues. merle is what causes it as a whole.


a lot of people that want to breed american pitbull terriers have a much more solid foundation then wanting to start a new fad. even then a lot of them will not because they realize even though they have their goals and what lines they are interested in, they know theres so so much more about it then just that. people that want to breed for colors or patterns and nothing more or very little more are called back yard breeders...those are the scum of the dog world. and most of them dont even have their facts straight! american itbull terriers werent bred for color or pattern any how. amullys are more of a show dog bred for looks.even in bullys merle is not acceptable!!
 

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what are your motives? do u want to do this for the fin of creating a cool coat pattern and keeping apts pure bred? if so sorry no can do. no matter what u do, any strain of apbt with merle in it is a mix. just like with the whole blue thing..

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Confused why you would put the blue in there, since blue is really a dilute of black It is possible to throw a true APBT with blue isnt it? from what I have read on some of the game dog threads blue was known to pop up in the day but were usually culled and looked down on. You wouldnt have found a merle popping up though. Just confused maybe someone can clear that up if im mistaken.
 
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The geneticists say that merle was introduced by mixed breeding. No matter how much you breed back to APBTs, you'll never have a purebred dog. And since the color itself is linked to health problems, no, you can't have one without the other. That's like saying you want to stand in a puddle without getting your feet wet.
 

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I actually just did a breeding to a merle female (although they are AMbullies) with my Sable tri male. The breeding was heavy Razors Edge and I thought at the least he would dominate the colors like he always does. No this time he dominated the bodies, and she dominated colors as I got one creme merle male, 3 blacks and the rest where blue merles. I dont know where theis color came form but I do know she is Purple Ribbon UKC registered.
 

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Purple ribbon means nothing , pretty much almost everynes bullys or apbts who are with ukc are now purple ribbon bred.. Merle is not accepted in either the bully world or the APBTworld, that color is not brought in by am staff nor apbt lines. Just curious what made you want to breed to a merle and did you research that at all? What was the purpose of that breeding?
 
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I actually just did a breeding to a merle female (although they are AMbullies) with my Sable tri male. The breeding was heavy Razors Edge and I thought at the least he would dominate the colors like he always does. No this time he dominated the bodies, and she dominated colors as I got one creme merle male, 3 blacks and the rest where blue merles. I dont know where theis color came form but I do know she is Purple Ribbon UKC registered.
So you bred a dog where you have no idea the genetics behind it and not of breed standard nor accepted? Bred a color where if poorly bred the genetic make up can pass on health concerns surrounding the merle gene? PR means nothing in terms of quality of a hound breeding worthy..

In a breed that is centered around the show ring especially.. Waste of pups.

Merle does not belong in these hounds and theres no such thing as a "merle pit"...
 
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So you bred a dog where you have no idea the genetics behind it and not of breed standard nor accepted? Bred a color where if poorly bred the genetic make up can pass on health concerns surrounding the merle gene? PR means nothing in terms of quality of a hound breeding worthy..

In a breed that is centered around the show ring especially.. Waste of pups.

Merle does not belong in these hounds and theres no such thing as a "merle pit"...
quoted for truth
 

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I never said Merle PIT, I said Ambullies.
Her father is Brindle, and Mother was black/white. She comes from heavy Shortshot/Truetank blood, and I thought my male would dominate the color as he has in every other litter but one. But no, it didnt work out that way.
She bought genes to the table that my male lacked such as: pocket sized offspring, better heads and shape.
She fits ABKC standard in all ways except her color.
I did alot of research and I did alot of searching. The color could have come from one of her grandparents as I was told her maternal grandmother was merle, so it is possible. She was bred back to her sire before my male and he told me she threw 50% merles, 25% tri marked, and 25% brindles. (No i dont condone inbreeding a merle, but i had asked if she had been bred before and what she threw)
 

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Merle is not an American Bully color either. It has come into these breeds through cross breeding. If you did any research at all you would know this color is not accepted at all and all merles should be sterilized as they can carry serious genetic problems. Merle dog = mixed dog. And no it is not possible at all for these dog to come out Merle with out adding another breed into the mix, they never carried the gene to cause that color.
 

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Merle is not an American Bully color either. It has come into these breeds through cross breeding. If you did any research at all you would know this color is not accepted at all and all merles should be sterilized as they can carry serious genetic problems. Merle dog = mixed dog. And no it is not possible at all for these dog to come out Merle with out adding another breed into the mix, they never carried the gene to cause that color.
BINGO.. You obviously didn't research much further than how much $$ you can make off them pups thrown because they won't place at any legit show.
 

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BINGO.. You obviously didn't research much further than how much $$ you can make off them pups thrown because they won't place at any legit show.
Agree with KM...

I know I wouldn't even purchase a "merle pit" for even a pet quality dog...it's not pure and I wouldn't want to deal with health issues...

I love the merle color but only in dogs where it's accepted in a breed's standard...
 

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Talk to any responsible CLD breeder about how difficult it is to produce worthy workers from their stocks.. Ask them how frequent culling happens compared to other breeds.. Theres a reason..

It is possible to keep the risks fairly low however in breeds where the vast majority are merle, or where merle pattern is frequent.. The margin of error is far greater..

I've met some excellent hunting hounds that were merle and in these parts of the world CLD x APBT crosses are fairly common for catch dog use however there is a high culling rate due to unwanted genetic "complications" put simply.. HA runs higher with "pit bulls" that carry over the merle gene..

You can talk about how you have Bullies vs APBT which is great, at least you acknowledge this fact however it is not accepted in the American Bully standard(s) either.. So you are breeding (or at least have once) dogs that can't be shown and would only be good for pets as they couldn't be used for working dogs as the AmBully is not designed mentally, physically or in any form for it.. Granted there are some that probably could but like finding gold in the rough... Majority lack the essentials..

Either way point is you are not breeding true to the dog, you are breeding what you like or what sells..
 
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Well, they arent MY pups to sell. And I dont just breed for what sells, check my site (obiviously) or I would have a yard full of sloppy bulldog looking mixes with horrible high rears and such.
I did the breeding to shorten up my male, and her owner wanted to add more girth and overall body. She comes from dogs with a larger headsize on a smaller frame. Really it was adding things and a pedigree breeding. Other than that I DONT BREED JUST FOR COLOR.
Not that I have to justiify myself to anyone cause at the end of the day I am the one responsible for myself.
If I chose the black female out the litter there is a percentage if I bred her down the road I could get merles, which i wouldnt use but still you can breed it out right? Eventually with selective breeding you can get what you are looking for.

Not to mention I am not breeding FOR merle, I REALLY believed that he would dominate color and throw more tri colors as he always has.
 

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So why breed in the first place, and bother down the road of breeding it out. Selective breeding begins with the parents, not 4 generations later.

Tri color is a recessive gene, so both the dogs pedigree would have to consist of dogs that have that recessive gene. Not to mention, from that other thread someone posted, i think merle is a dominant color too.
 

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Well, they arent MY pups to sell. And I dont just breed for what sells, check my site (obiviously) or I would have a yard full of sloppy bulldog looking mixes with horrible high rears and such.
I did the breeding to shorten up my male, and her owner wanted to add more girth and overall body. She comes from dogs with a larger headsize on a smaller frame. Really it was adding things and a pedigree breeding. Other than that I DONT BREED JUST FOR COLOR.
Not that I have to justiify myself to anyone cause at the end of the day I am the one responsible for myself.
If I chose the black female out the litter there is a percentage if I bred her down the road I could get merles, which i wouldnt use but still you can breed it out right? Eventually with selective breeding you can get what you are looking for.

Not to mention I am not breeding FOR merle, I REALLY believed that he would dominate color and throw more tri colors as he always has.
The merle allele is dominate therefore once introduced it is extremely difficult to "breed out" of a yard.. I have never seen or heard of anyone being able to breed out the gene but rather produce "cryptic" merles, which are in basic terms merle dogs that visibly show no merle coat.. That once bred to a non - merle is easily resurfaced.. A merle breeding, all pups thrown will be carriers regardless of what is appeared..

This is why the merle gene has no ground to stand on (well just one part) with the debates of merle and APBT's.. The merle and APBT didn't really start to surface until the 1980's and 1990's.. Before then you occasionally may have heard something about a hound being merle however pre 1950's there is no evidence that i have found.. If there is its too spread out to be sufficient evidence.. As the APBT is a part of the AmBullies history this gene would have been carried through to the new breed developed and perfected for the show ring which it wasn't.. This is why its a big deal when someone breeds the merle gene into a breed that it is not accepted or never really existed because you are altering the genetics that make the foundation of what the breed is.. If you change one thing it can cause a chain reaction as everything is inner connected.

If it doesn't exist within a show breed, against the standard you are creating (or supporting if its not your litter as you are advertising it as one of your own or a part of..) pups that are useless to the breeds purpose therefore only can be sold or kept as pets.. S/N.. There is no point in it and there are enough great pet quality animals in shelters and rescues.. A job of a breeder is to preserve or advance/improve the breed selected.. Keep in tact purpose, standard, structure, temperament, etc..

The merle gene does not just at "random" pop up in a dog, it is not like the "Blue" where theoretically does not need the gene to produce the dilution.. Merle, requires the introduction of the gene in some form (cross breeding if the breed does not have a history of merles thrown) in order for at least the carrier to be passed by generation..

You can burry the traits down by selectively breeding however it can and will resurface at anytime so long as you continue breeding any offspring or the dog itself..

It doesn't matter the purpose behind you breeding or whom ever is, the pups will still (or already are) be thrown and need care.. Theres enough pets out there and utterly pointless to create further un-needed life.. IT does NOTHING for the breed what so ever and that should be priority.
 
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