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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all. I am new to the forum. I am so glad to have such a wealth of information available to me.

I need some opinions though. Jones is my first dog. And I have been wanting a bully breed ever since I can remember. My question is one that I have no clue about.

I was going to get him fix when he is 6 months old, but I had a woman from the SPCA recommend that I get him fixed now at 14 weeks.

Is it ok to get him done now or are there risks with it? He is at home with an intact 3yr old male Rottweiler (my dad's. I live on their property), and they get along really well now. Would that change if I left Jones intact until he is older? Is it possible that he would start trying to jump thing? Because my dad's Rottweiler has recently tried to hump kids who have come around.

I hate the idea of "oops litters" so I know that Jones needs to get fixed. I spose my question is, do I get it done now or later?

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SPCA wants everything spay/neutered by 4 months, you need to decide what's right for your own dog. I rescue so everything gets neutered ASAP. As for the intact rott? Let someone else explain the genetic predisposition in apbt's
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks Dave.

I have done a lot of reading, I know the history behind the bully breeds.

I have also heard valid arguments from both sides of the nature vs nurture thing, all across the Internet. They are not going to be together indefinitely. But quite possibly for the next year to year and a half.

Are there any negative affects of getting a pup fixed before they're 4months old? I remember when I rescued my cat I did a lot of reading about how it affects cats. Like how male cats that are fixed early don't developed as fully in their faces, and their long bones grow for longer than a cat that matures "unaltered". Then there is the wondering and spraying deal.

What are the dog equivalents of what I've mentioned with cats, or aren't there any.

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Eh, since you are living with your family and another intact dog, I would just get him fixed at 6 months if you think everyone would feel better about him being neutered. However, chances are neutered or not that rottie and your pup probably won't get along eventually. So it's good to plan ahead and prepare for a crate and rotate situation. Get your pup crate trained for sure. Always watch them closely and never allow them to be together unsupervised. If you notice their play starts escalating too fast too far, that is the time to start keeping them separated my opinion. You can take them for walks together and many dogs are able to be walked together, they just can't play together without things escalating.

Anyway, if you were on your own I would personally wait till he is 18 months, for basically the same reasons you listed for cats. You want the bone plates to seal. However, you don't want an accidental litter. Responsible owners CAN have intact dogs and never have "oops" litters. You just have to work hard and take all precautions to make sure he never gets out of the house/yard, etc. since you are living at home it's probably best to have him fixed at 6 months so that way none of the other family members don't accidentally let him escape outside, etc. so in your case I personally feel its best for him to get fixed sooner rather than later. :)
 

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There are differing opinions on this subject.... like Dave said, the ASPCA wants everything spayed/neutered early on to prevent the inevitable later on. As Coach stated, if you were on you own, it would be conducive to Jones to be neutered after he's finished developing. However, coexisting with another intact male, on someone else's property no less, can make for an ugly situation later down the line. It's really your choice when to do it, unless you're under contract with a local shelter/rescue to have it done by a certain time. But, I read your intro, and I understand you got him from a BYB so obviously there's no contract, which goes back to it being your choice as to when it's done. I'm glad you're willing to have it done, for the sake of not having any accidents.

Per the question about risks, etc.... there's always a risk when you put an animal under to have any procedure done, the highest being that he may or may not come out of it. This is why a good vet runs tests prior to surgery to check blood, heart rate, oxygen intake, etc. to be sure the animal should be able to withstand the anesthesia and recover quickly with no adverse affects. I do know from experience that it does affect the bone growth and maturity level of some animals, but will not reduce aggressiveness or "calm an animal down" as most activists claim it will. My mutt boy was neutered early, and will be roughly 3 yrs old in February, and is very protective of the family, as well as Dog Aggressive, but is the most lovable, puppy-like male I've ever owned in my adult life with the direct family. He's tall, lanky and thin, and very narrow chested which makes him still look like an adolescent pup (since he didn't get to fully develop), but he's already turning grey around the muzzle. I have an intact female who will be 2 yrs old this month, and she is the same way, attitude wise... she's Dog Aggressive, but friendly and outgoing with everyone she meets (thanks to me socializing her well), and is a big marshmallow of a couch potato when she's interacting with family. She is developing well, due to being allowed to mature, and I have no plans to have her spayed, as she is a competition dog (when I have time and funds available to go to competitions), but if things change later on down the line, at least I'll know she's had the chance to mature and fill out prior to being spayed.

Regardless of what you decide, I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors with Jones.
 

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i think she said it was a 'bully' type breed, if thats the case your still gonna have the male dominance issues, just wont be as bad as if it was an apbt.

as far as neuturing i feel like that should be up to you as the owner of the dog,
but i would do as much research as nessasary, so when i made my decision,
it would be an informed decision.

dont think that will stop the issues, even when its done to apbt's,
i've heard it dosent calm them down anyway.

but, if theres no reason for the dog to be bred, that might help on what you decide
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Wow... Thanks so much everyone.

Surfer, with regard to the APBT thing, I got him from a byb, I was told reluctantly that he is an APBT, but I've looked online and through the pictures on here and he is not nearly as broad as some of the pups I've seen pictures of APBT's. i am thinking that if neutering is not going to change his leaning toward DA, then it makes me reluctant to get him fixed if he is going to get tall and gangly. Because I am not under contract, and have been socializing the life out Jones, every spare moment I get, I think I will wait and see how things go.

I know the chances of him being DA are pretty high, but I am determined to keep an eye on it, and have got him in puppy school, and have planned to continue with obedience and possibly (if he likes it) to do a sport with him to burn off his energy.

He is incredibly smart, and has sit mastered about 98% of the time. We're still working in his recall, but he is getting better at it. :)

How have you managed DA with your dogs?

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Diggin' Deep
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DA is managed with training. You teach the dog to focus on you. Look into getting him into obedience classes. And no, the petsmart and petco trainers are NOT good classes. Those are a joke. I mean find a real deal trainer and start working on focus now. Crating and rotating will be in your future if you stay with your family and one or both the dogs starts getting aggressive with the other.
 

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Ultimately, it's your call to make and just comes down to personal preference and weighing the pros and cons.

Oops litters are easily prevented by responsible management. And neutering in no way guarantees behavioral modification. Can neutering help take the edge off certain behaviors? It's entirely possible but it's not a given.

My dog was born into a foster home and I adopted him at 9 weeks old. They have a blanket policy requiring all dogs adopted out to be s/n before placement, but I managed to work out a arrangement where they allowed me to take him intact on a provisional foster-to-adopt contract with the stipulation that he be neutered by 6 months at my expense or he would be repossessed by the rescue. He was neutered at 5 months and while Im glad I was able to delay it as much as I did, I still wish I had been able to wait longer.

There many reputable peer-reviewed studies showing correlation between early adolescent neuter and joint/tendon/ligament issues, specifically CCL tears.

My next dog, if I decide to do so at all, will not be altered until s/he has reached maturity. For health and developmental reasons. Again, the possible risks thought to be associated with early s/n are in no way guarantees, but in the future I'd rather not take that chance. Especially since my next dog will be dedicated sports dog.

Just something to think about! However, if you feel you are unable to keep an intact male properly contained and prevent him from doing the humpty-hump with the sweet little bitch in heat next door, then I think your best option would be to neuter early on.
 

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if you were told that he was an apbt, then, if i was you i would believe he has at least a good amount of apbt in him.
if thats the case, as far as him being tall & gangly, he's going thru a phase, because
when he develops your gonna have a beatiful specimen of a dog.
now dont get me wrong, some people like 'tall & gangly'
but the standards for the apbt, i dont remember those two words being in there.

as far as da goes, i never let my dogs come in contact with one another, so i dont really
try to stop it.

if i'm workin one i like to do it in front of the others [certain things] work the hide.
my dogs are show-offs and jealous of one another.

we build up the time, but the most i've seen so far, is 47min. one hold on the hide before he tried to re-group.
and this is 47min. of balls to the wall slingin, got a big garage door spring about 5' off the ground from that a rope with a cow hide attached, so when the dog grabs hold his back feet are ALWAYS on the ground.

when he starts workin the hide[pullin it] from that spring pulling back the other way, you are workin the positive and negative reflexes
in his body, and he becomes 'super' strong
 

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I work with my boy by having structured walks and training classes where I know the handlers and trainers I can trust. My trainers have a facebook page that was started and people all the time plan meet ups. I like it because all of them for the most part have DA dogs, not just bully's. The worst was a chi mix who was also human aggressive. By the end of the 5 week class that dog was taking treats from others and not giving stink eyes anymore to dogs. My boy does great in these type of situations now, I try to go on as many structured walks as I can. My boy used to act a fool if we encountered another dog, no matter how the other dog acted. Now it takes a really unstable dog at the end of their leash to get a rise out of my boy. We still work on it every day and having willing participants in other owners makes it great practice.
 

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Katey, you're off to a great start having him enrolled in obedience. I'm not sure what all sports they have to offer in S. Africa, but I'd be interested to hear about his progress when you get there. Again, it's ultimately your decision if/when to get him neutered, but as was stated, make sure you do plenty of research on the subject so you go in knowing what you're getting yourself and your dog into. Best of luck with Jones and I can't wait to see more pictures of him when you get a chance to take/post them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
You are all so generous with your help. And for that I am grateful.

Jones has a play date this weekend with dogs he gets along very well with, so I will try get some good play pictures up.

Lady, there is apparently a very active agility group in S.Africa. One of the dogs I dog sit takes part. And her owner has invited me to go with to watch at the end if the month. The woman who does our puppy class takes part too, and has had props at our class for our dogs to sniff out and the tunnel for the pups to try. Jones loved the tunnel for all the treats people had thrown In there. His nose was working overtime. Haha

Thanks again everyone and I will let you all know what I decide.

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