[abus44]

Hi everyone - long time reader but first time writer. I have a question about my new puppy Rosey. She's about eight weeks old now and I've had her for only a week and she's a great little pup. I recently took her to my parents house to meet my family and my mom's two big, even-tempered, standard poodles. I already know that little Rosey has a bit of a dominant streak in her (from my own experiences and from what the vet said) and I've been on top of that to make sure she knows that my girlfriend and I are on top. But the question I have concerns how Rosey interacted with my mom's poodles.

My mom's dog weren't overly interested in Rosey's presence beyond the customary sniffing. Rosey was submissive to the older poodle (almost 5 years old) and even rolled onto her back a couple times after he gave her a little growl when she got near his bone. However, Rosey seemed to be challenging the younger poodle (2.5 years old) and was barking at him and chasing him around - even though he is three times her size and five times her weight. I took it to be that she was just challenging him for his position in the "pack." Am I correctly reading this interaction? or is there some other explanation for Rosey's behavior and this interaction such as an aggression issue? If it helps, Rosey was not aggressive with my girlfriend's geriatric 15 year old beagle but she was nipping at her in a playful way.

Thanks for any help and advice in advance. I've been really impressed with the info and knowledge I've already learned from reading the posts on this site.

 

[Lex's Guardian]

Check out the link on this thread:
http://www.gopitbull.com/general-discussion/37058-importance-early-puppy-socialization.html

It sounds like your pup is exhibiting early signs of DA - which is common in the APBT, it could be a gender thing as well... Just keep an eye on it & read as much about the APBT as you can. This is a great place to get info but also check out the ADBA website too

 

[abus44]

Thanks for the quick response. I'll be sure to keep an eye on it and continue to read up on the breed.

 

[Lex's Guardian]

Thanks for the quick response. I'll be sure to keep an eye on it and continue to read up on the breed.

Sure thing. If you're interested in a few books. Check out Dr. Ian Dunbar 'before & after getting a puppy', 'After you get your puppy' & 'dog behavior'...

I haven't read this yet but hear it's good: the pitbull placebo karen delise

 

[Celestial88]

I've heard great things about Ian Dunbar's book too(From very trusted/educated sources), I second that one.

 

[performanceknls]

If this is the first time your pup has been with those poodles I do not think it is dominance related to pack position. To be considered park of the pack it would be humans or dogs who all live together and spend everyday together. A casual interaction with a new dog would not be considered part of the "pack".
It is possible your pup was being dominate with the other dog but not for pack position. It is hard to say if it was dominance, DA, or just hard play without seeing it first hand. Know that DA is part of this breed, I just had to pull my 4 month old new puppy off my 6 year old Boston Terrier so DA can happen at any time. I did correct her for going after one of my older dogs and I do not allow unwarned DA especially out of a pup. I know it is there and I will deal with it accordingly.
I too would suggest the book I have heard good things about it and if you are really serious about your pup I would suggest training classes with a good trainer. It can really help to learn how to communicate with your pup and how to have control and build a relationship with a good foundation.

 

[abus44]

Thanks for the info. I've heard good things about Dr. Dunbar too but I still need to check out his books.

 

[Lex's Guardian]

If this is the first time your pup has been with those poodles I do not think it is dominance related to pack position. To be considered park of the pack it would be humans or dogs who all live together and spend everyday together. A casual interaction with a new dog would not be considered part of the "pack".
It is possible your pup was being dominate with the other dog but not for pack position. It is hard to say if it was dominance, DA, or just hard play without seeing it first hand. Know that DA is part of this breed, I just had to pull my 4 month old new puppy off my 6 year old Boston Terrier so DA can happen at any time. I did correct her for going after one of my older dogs and I do not allow unwarned DA especially out of a pup. I know it is there and I will deal with it accordingly.
I too would suggest the book I have heard good things about it and if you are really serious about your pup I would suggest training classes with a good trainer. It can really help to learn how to communicate with your pup and how to have control and build a relationship with a good foundation.

:goodpost:

As for the trainer, don't settle until you feel comfortable & really do your research to find a good one, ask for owner references that own pits & ask detailed questions you know the answers to about the breed to really get an idea who the trainer really is. To make sure he/she knows their stuff & isn't just regurgitating something they read off the internet that day without real experience... Also be wary of petstore training classes, they can be good but personally, I don't trust them.

@lisa - poor general. Did you come up with a name for the pup yet?

 

[performanceknls]

nope no name yet, I haven't decided on what the little pipsqueak should be yet

 

[Celestial88]

It is possible your pup was being dominate with the other dog but not for pack position. It is hard to say if it was dominance, DA, or just hard play without seeing it first hand.

I think the word you're looking for is assertive...

Wolf packs living in the wild are dominated by one alpha male and female breeding pair, who guide and protect their cubs. R9 As soon as they are old enough to mate, these cubs will leave the pack to find mates, and raise families of their own. This would mean that every wolf healthy enough and able to find a mate will be "alpha" at one time or another during its lifespan, but only while raising its young.

And...

According to The Oxford Dictionary, "Dominance" means "in control over a group" and "assertive" means "to insist." An assertive dog is challenging a person or another dog to win resources that it wishes to control, not to control the other person or dog; therefore, a dog's competition for a desired resource has nothing to do with ranking, it has to do with the resource.

And another good link.
Pack Theory: Fact or Fiction? | Taryn Blyth

ClickerSolutions Training Articles -- Why Can't a Dog Be More Like a Dog?

I actually learned a few things looking that up... *thumbs up*

 

[performanceknls]

If i meant to say assertive I would have. Dogs are not wolves and are far removed from what they use to be. It is not very accurate to compare them to wolves and there is a lot of discussion among trainers who are on both sides of the discussion. The dog chasing the poodle has little to do with a desired resource. I never said it had anything to do with ranking and it is hard to say what is really is without being able to observe the dogs, there is a lot behind things like body language which is hard to convey over the internet.

I find it very insulting that you feel the need to correct what I am trying to convey. You can have your own opinions but many of them are based on what you read and what little experience you have. Again I have no problem if we do not see eye to eye but very rude of you to imply I am incorrect or you "correcting" what I am saying. If I meant to say assertive I would have.

 

[Celestial88]

If i meant to say assertive I would have. Dogs are not wolves and are far removed from what they use to be. It is not very accurate to compare them to wolves and there is a lot of discussion among trainers who are on both sides of the discussion. The dog chasing the poodle has little to do with a desired resource. I never said it had anything to do with ranking and it is hard to say what is really is without being able to observe the dogs, there is a lot behind things like body language which is hard to convey over the internet.

I find it very insulting that you feel the need to correct what I am trying to convey. You can have your own opinions but many of them are based on what you read and what little experience you have. Again I have no problem if we do not see eye to eye but very rude of you to imply I am incorrect or you "correcting" what I am saying. If I meant to say assertive I would have.

I know dogs aren't like wolves, that's what the links said... And sorry, I was just trying to share information, not correct you. You said you like to learn, and as I do too, I enjoy reading informational links.

Also showing how with dogs, the "pack" is very loose and often changing and open to knew "members"/"strays"

Also, I may have missed the link, but I was trying to also show how rude behaviors such as mounting, barking at the other dog, being pushy, rude, putting a paw over the shoulder, etc is actually "assertive" behavior not "dominant".

Please don't read anything I write in a hostile tone, it was written in an informative tone.

Nothing to do with "feeling the need to correct you.".

 

[performanceknls]

I do enjoy learning but when a 17 year old tries to correct me, it pisses me off and is very disrespectful. Your info is based off another trainers theory and fine to post but your attitude towards me in the last few threads has me hackled. Again it is one thing to post other info and theories but when when you imply I am giving bad advice based off your limited experience you are poking the hornets nest. I have not worked half my life with dogs and behavioral training, worked hard on all my accomplishments, and been very successful with my training business to be told I am wrong by a 17 year old. Even if you did not mean it that way, that is how it is coming off.

 

[Celestial88]

When I said

I actually learned a few things looking that up... *thumbs up*

I was implying that there was actual information in the threads, not that you are lacking anything (if that's what you thought.).

I'm 15, but that doesn't matter. Age isn't what should make the person... Unless under, say, 10 for obvious developmental reasons.

I personally enjoy debates, and as I want to be a trainer I'd love it if someone proves me wrong on a technique and explains the wrong in my ways by throwing in my technique/what I prefer it leaves me open to corrections. In the last thread my post wasn't towards you, it was in general and for the sake of learning new things. I'm always open minded to being wrong and would never see someone as disrespectful if they were trying to prove me wrong on a point. Now if they did it in an immature irrational way, that would be a different story.
Which is my reasoning behind posting my way in a thread suggesting other ways.

My attitude was never negative. Quite frankly its been calm, informative, and curious.

And sorry for assuming with the links in the first post, went against my own saying I guess. "Assumption gets you nowhere." lol...

 

[performanceknls]

I think the word you're looking for is assertive...

This was directed at me since you quoted me and yes very offensive. I have no problem with debate but they way you have come at me as if I am wrong in the advice I have given is what I am talking about. You have a lot to learn and I am happy you are trying to learn but respect those who have experience and have been doing it longer than you have been alive.

 

[Celestial88]

Ugh, yeah sorry, one reason why I hate text is you can't hear the tone. For future reasons, generally when I am trying to correct someone I flat out say it, I don't say "I think".

If I were correcting, I would've said something more like, "No, assertive is the correct term."

And again, sorry for the poor wording.