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SCRATCHIN
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Ok, so here we go...

after hours and hours of studying this site, im convinced to jump on board! very knowledgeable people here...

So here is my dilemma. i had a pit for 15 years and never had an issue w ne thing, but i had 2 kids so i couldnt give her the attention that she deserves ne more so had to give my dog away to my uncle who owns a farm...needless to say she is still kickin and chasin animals in a farm all day long lovin life...blah blah blah

...now, my kids r a little bigger and figured it was time for a pit again :roll: we just brought our 6wk old pup "Zorro" home



he was like 3 days into kibble wen i got him...puppy chow...i know...garbage!

so i started weaning him over to orijen puppy


now he is 7 weeks...i am guilty of feeding him a little extra than what the bag recommends..i been feeding almost 1 and a half as opposed to 1 cup a day between 2 meals a day. (he devours his food in 30 seconds)

but i am noticing that he is beginning to knuckle over on his left leg and im concerned.

should I cut his food back? ...or just switch over to blue buff until he balances it out?

idk if this is bcuz of too much protein, unbalanced diet due to mixing puppy chow and orijen for first few days, or just maybe my 3 year old daughter put him down too hard????


the first pic was before any symptoms...you can see on the pic below how he leans to the right now...
hes been like that for the last couple of days. seems like it bothers him to put weight on the leg...no real whimpering wen u touch his leg and he seems to run at will and play plenty

i do notice that he is quick to randomly lay down more when walking outside...maybe im just pnoid...can somebody tell me what they think?

...i know a few names on this site that are dripping w knowledge...Lisa and Deb lol :rofl: thanks in advance and im looking orward to learn more...hopefully we can spread the knowledge of this wonderful breed!!
 

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Premium Member
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It can be somewhat genetic , but the high protein may cause it to be more severe then it would be not every dog does great on high protein . If I were you I would switch him over right now to totw or BB or something even costcos kirkland food, and there is a great thread on what to do for knuckling if you use the search function up top. you have obviously caught this early so should be able to reverse it and see improvement fast. You will want to watch the weight as well { I know not a big concern with puppys usually but excess weight can just add to the problem}
 

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English Dogge Yard
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I would actually have to say not only is it "some what genetic" it is genetic. (even though there are "experts" out there that say otherwise) Poor genetics can create several issues both visible and not, the rate of which puppies grow also has to do with genetics, while other things can and do contribute it all goes back around to the genes.

Unfortunately the best fix is to take off of Orijen and start feeding something of much less protein. Its hard to tell from the pictures you provided however it appears to be the beginning stages so it wouldn't take long for correction. I would stick around 28% or less while as a pup. Once finished growing if you chose to try Orijen again you can as once the growing stages are complete its generally safe to go back, though with a high protein diet unless you own a working breed or heavily working your dog on a daily basis, its unnecessary to feed such levels.

I have fed high protein diets for years with zero health problems, as already mentioned though all dogs are going to be different and respond differently to all sorts of things, including kibble.
 

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OCD Bullyologist
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I moved this to your own thread so that it didn't hijack someone elses.

Knuckling over is caused by the following:​
1) a combination of two different types or brands of dog foods - feeding (50/50)
2) the brand or type of food has been changed several times (3-4) times
3) the addition of poor quality vitamins/minerals to a diet (not from whole foods)
4) human foods in amounts enough to disrupt the calcium/phosphorus balance
5) too many calories vs the amount of free exercise they get on a daily bases
6) feeding a pet food that has minerals that are not very available to the body - crude forms
7) diets lacking vital microminerals or trace minerals
8) feeding too much of a good food
9) any or all of the above.

Check out this thread on knuckling.
 

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Work them Pet Bulls!
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He is very cute but also very young. 6 weeks is to young to be taken from it's mother and siblings. They learn bite inhibition from both of them so seeing as how you have little children you may have some issues with nibbling on fingers and things ;) Be prepared to work with that and as soon as he is up to date on shots I would get him into some puppy obedience classes. The appropriate age to be taken from it's mom is 8 weeks....just a little fyi ;) Now, as far as kibble goes I would stay lower protein. If you want to stay grain free taste of the wild has I believe two foods that are 25% protein (lamb and the fish formula) I believe. Also, blue buffalo adult lamb and brown rice is a good one as well it is only 22% protein. My girl started knuckling a little and I put her on BB for about 5 months. Now that she is almost a year old and we are both very active I just switched her to Acana grasslands. All in all I would stay with a lower protein with your pup :) Also, try to keep the little ones from picking him up to much as they could drop him. He is still tiny and fragile ;)
 

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I would actually have to say not only is it "some what genetic" it is genetic. (even though there are "experts" out there that say otherwise) Poor genetics can create several issues both visible and not, the rate of which puppies grow also has to do with genetics, while other things can and do contribute it all goes back around to the genes.
While I can agree with this statement knuckling is not always poor genetics. Siren had 2 pups in her last litter slightly knuckle over and Siren herself was pretty bad a pup. Knuckling can be caused by several things including Genetics but all it really is, is the ligaments growing faster than the leg bones and not supporting the leg. When the pup grows up a bit and the bone grows there is no long last effect. It is not like hip displaysia or something that does not correct it's self.

I moved this to your own thread so that it didn't hijack someone elses.

Knuckling over is caused by the following:​
1) a combination of two different types or brands of dog foods - feeding (50/50)
2) the brand or type of food has been changed several times (3-4) times
3) the addition of poor quality vitamins/minerals to a diet (not from whole foods)
4) human foods in amounts enough to disrupt the calcium/phosphorus balance
5) too many calories vs the amount of free exercise they get on a daily bases
6) feeding a pet food that has minerals that are not very available to the body - crude forms
7) diets lacking vital microminerals or trace minerals
8) feeding too much of a good food
9) any or all of the above.

Check out this thread on knuckling.
:goodpost: Yeah what she said! lol

He is very cute but also very young. 6 weeks is to young to be taken from it's mother and siblings. They learn bite inhibition from both of them so seeing as how you have little children you may have some issues with nibbling on fingers and things ;) Be prepared to work with that and as soon as he is up to date on shots I would get him into some puppy obedience classes. The appropriate age to be taken from it's mom is 8 weeks....just a little fyi ;) Now, as far as kibble goes I would stay lower protein. If you want to stay grain free taste of the wild has I believe two foods that are 25% protein (lamb and the fish formula) I believe. Also, blue buffalo adult lamb and brown rice is a good one as well it is only 22% protein. My girl started knuckling a little and I put her on BB for about 5 months. Now that she is almost a year old and we are both very active I just switched her to Acana grasslands. All in all I would stay with a lower protein with your pup :) Also, try to keep the little ones from picking him up to much as they could drop him. He is still tiny and fragile ;)
What puppy doesn't have a nibbling problem! lol

To the OP do you have better pictures of the pup knuckling over? you normally see it start to happen at a little older age like around 8-10 weeks or older when the puppy has a growth spurt. In the pictures I do not see any real knuckling over. At this age you need to be feeding your puppy 3 times a day till they are about 16-18 weeks then you can go to twice a day. Twice a day is not enough for such a young pup. I would offer a cup at each feeding and if they eat it all great if not that is ok. This age they have a lot of growing to do and need a lot of food intake. Oh and :welcome: to the forum you have a very cute puppy!
 

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SCRATCHIN
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
here come some more pics!

and thank all of u dat replied!!! :)

i jus got home from petsmart and im going w the bb 22% lamb n rice kibble.

Im about to feed him now...

too performance...one cup per feeding?? reallyy??

i thought i was over feeding giving 1 1/4 cup per day as is.

he will LOVE 1 cup per day!!!! lol

i guess im doing 50/50, then slowly eliminate Orijen...

ne wayz thanks again..here go some pics

ps sumbody tell me how to find this thread ezier...i had to do a search to find it.

Is there a way that i can just view my previous posts??:hammer:
 

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English Dogge Yard
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While I can agree with this statement knuckling is not always poor genetics. Siren had 2 pups in her last litter slightly knuckle over and Siren herself was pretty bad a pup. Knuckling can be caused by several things including Genetics but all it really is, is the ligaments growing faster than the leg bones and not supporting the leg. When the pup grows up a bit and the bone grows there is no long last effect. It is not like hip displaysia or something that does not correct it's self.

:goodpost: Yeah what she said! lol

What puppy doesn't have a nibbling problem! lol

To the OP do you have better pictures of the pup knuckling over? you normally see it start to happen at a little older age like around 8-10 weeks or older when the puppy has a growth spurt. In the pictures I do not see any real knuckling over. At this age you need to be feeding your puppy 3 times a day till they are about 16-18 weeks then you can go to twice a day. Twice a day is not enough for such a young pup. I would offer a cup at each feeding and if they eat it all great if not that is ok. This age they have a lot of growing to do and need a lot of food intake. Oh and :welcome: to the forum you have a very cute puppy!
I'm still doing more investigating on my own time about this and the genetic side of things, i believe genetics contributes more than what most believe. I may prove myself wrong and i know other things contribute to it as well, naturally but thats all ill really say for now. If i end up proving myself i'll be posting a crap ton of information on my findings.. Its a slow process.

By no means do i think its the only factor, but i do think it is the base.
 

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OCD Bullyologist
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To the OP do you have better pictures of the pup knuckling over? you normally see it start to happen at a little older age like around 8-10 weeks or older when the puppy has a growth spurt. In the pictures I do not see any real knuckling over. At this age you need to be feeding your puppy 3 times a day till they are about 16-18 weeks then you can go to twice a day. Twice a day is not enough for such a young pup. I would offer a cup at each feeding and if they eat it all great if not that is ok. This age they have a lot of growing to do and need a lot of food intake. Oh and :welcome: to the forum you have a very cute puppy!
Me either; however, the pasterns do look weak, but that could just be the picture.
 

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SCRATCHIN
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
ok here are da pics...btw he ate his first 50/50 bb with orijen already.

these are fresh pics taken right before chow time today.

i am noticing that the leg seems to bother him more today..

i took a few different shots cuz his stance is always slightly different

something i forgot to mention was that i am watering the kibble briefly with warm water...dont know if that plays any role
 

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Work them Pet Bulls!
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ok here are da pics...btw he ate his first 50/50 bb with orijen already.

these are fresh pics taken right before chow time today.

i am noticing that the leg seems to bother him more today..

i took a few different shots cuz his stance is always slightly different

something i forgot to mention was that i am watering the kibble briefly with warm water...dont know if that plays any role
Correct me if I am wrong but the leg that is slightly bowed out looks like knuckling. Thats what Bella started doing when I discovered something wasn't right.
 

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Work them Pet Bulls!
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SCRATCHIN
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
so what did u do about it wen u noticed it?? cuz Bella looks pretty good to me!! lol
 

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Work them Pet Bulls!
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so what did u do about it wen u noticed it?? cuz Bella looks pretty good to me!! lol
Of course she looks good now LOL! She's over it ;) I put her on the BB lamb and rice adult formula at 22% protein. I also supplement with MSM and Glucosamine for her joints :)
 

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ok here are da pics...btw he ate his first 50/50 bb with orijen already.

these are fresh pics taken right before chow time today.

i am noticing that the leg seems to bother him more today..

i took a few different shots cuz his stance is always slightly different

something i forgot to mention was that i am watering the kibble briefly with warm water...dont know if that plays any role
You have him on the right food and yes I would feed a pup 3 times a day and I offer a cup each time. Catching the knuckling early is good and with a diet change you will be good to go in a few weeks.

I know that they all do Lisa LOL! :roll: You know what I was getting at ;)
I know but the way you said it made me LOL, like yeah.... all pups bite..... ;)
 

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SCRATCHIN
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
You have him on the right food and yes I would feed a pup 3 times a day and I offer a cup each time. Catching the knuckling early is good and with a diet change you will be good to go in a few weeks.

Cool i will keep u guys posted! thank u for all ur help!:rofl:

btw...Zorro was running around like a little bull about an hour and a half after eating his first meal w bb. i have never seen him run around like dat!!! something made him happy:roll:

reminds me dat he is jus a puppy and his little pit personality is only beginning to snif da surface right now!
 

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SCRATCHIN
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
so check this out now. Zorro been on bb lamb n rice adult for a couple days now.

Good news is his left paw is no longer knuckling!!!!:clap:


Bad news is NOW HIS RIGHT PAW IS KNUCKLING!!!!!!! :mad:


SO HOPE FULLY HE OUT GROWS IT ON HIS OTHER PAW

UGHHHHHHH ...GODBLESSSS!!!!!!!!!!!! FRUSTRATING LOL
 

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Work them Pet Bulls!
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It can take two weeks or more to see real results just keep him on that food. I wouldn't go high protein or grain free until he is about a year or so and when you do I would go no higher than 34%. My girl will be a year old next month and I was going to put her on TOTW lamb at 25% protein but I chose Acana at 32% instead.
 

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SCRATCHIN
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
It can take two weeks or more to see real results just keep him on that food. I wouldn't go high protein or grain free until he is about a year or so and when you do I would go no higher than 34%. My girl will be a year old next month and I was going to put her on TOTW lamb at 25% protein but I chose Acana at 32% instead.
thanks for da advice!

it is very tempting to put him back on da protein...honestly i think he looked a little fuller while on the Orijen.

but a wise man has to listen to da voice of experience on this one lol

btw u got ne mor pics of bella?
 

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Work them Pet Bulls!
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thanks for da advice!

it is very tempting to put him back on da protein...honestly i think he looked a little fuller while on the Orijen.

but a wise man has to listen to da voice of experience on this one lol

btw u got ne mor pics of bella?
You can add some salmon oil to his diet for added omega 3's for skin and coat as well as a little extra fat in his diet ;) I add yogurt and other supplements but your pup is to young for all that just yet. I think the yogurt would be okay though.

Of course! I have LOTS of pics LOL!! That's my baby girl ;) I will post a few links in here for you to see :D give me a sec to find them.....

Here's some LOL! Probably overkill for you and you will be sorry you asked :D
http://www.gopitbull.com/pictures/37800-squirrel-hunting.html
http://www.gopitbull.com/pictures/36228-bellas-conformation-blue-girl-green.html
http://www.gopitbull.com/pictures/36755-shes-got-her-big-girl-pants.html
http://www.gopitbull.com/pictures/38291-straight-up-rocks.html
 
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