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my crazy little mutt pack
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What is the chance of of pup once reaching maturity becoming HA if the stud that produced the pup is HA?
 

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Pits Are For Chicks
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HA is a tricky issue as environment and raising has a lot to do with why a dog may be HA. Also is the dogs actually HA or just a scared or fearful dog that is aggressive for those reasons.


Without being the one that raised the dog, its hard to know if it is a bad dog, or a bad situation that caused this. If the line has had other HA dogs then you can lean toward genetics, but otherwise, you can't really know if its genetic or environmental unless you have been around the dog its whole life and know how it was raised, to know if there was a cause.

I am not sure if you were around When I had to put Bumble Bees sister down, but she was HA. She did have a medical issue, however after watching her for over a month I knew that was not the cause of this aggression. I owned her until 7 months old and she was the sweetest dog ever, so I know if was not a genetic issue. When she came back she was a vicious dog.
 
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my crazy little mutt pack
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks holly give me a sec and ill explain why I asked
 

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Lokis brother was stabbed by the owner after turning on him and then shot by the cops when they showed up. Non of Lokis other siblings { that I know of , we know a few} nor his parents have ever shown HA , I think alot of it is on the situation. I believe this guy mistreated and from what I hear didnt set up any boundarys or rules with him Im leaning to its alot to do with owners then genetics { although im sure there are some genetic reason for a few , just dont think the majority is to do with genetics}. Being said I dont think a dog with HA no matter if its just a circumstancial reason due do with how they are raised and treated should be bred.
 

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English Dogge Yard
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Its going to depend on if if the stud was genetically HA or due to behavior problems from poor socialization.. There could also be something medical going on to cause HA.. Its kind of a broad range of answers.. Do you know if the dog was healthy or how the stud was bred? Also, do you know by chance if the stud was socialized young?

Many people confuse HA with other things going on, a true HA dog is similar to that of a game dog except you take away the dog on dog and its now dog on human in terms of direction. There are quite a few protection breeds out there in the world were HA is not only accepted but desired. Fila's would be one example.

It is possible for HA dogs to respect the handler but thats a art all together when it comes to breeding.

What makes you say the stud was HA? What was he doing? Just trying to get a better understanding.
 

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my crazy little mutt pack
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Ok so here is the thing. Cheza sire (if you can even call that byb mutt that) I have just come to find is ha and pretty drmatically and unstablely so. He has bitten his owners nephew who I believe is around 8 on the face, bit the pool guy and bit hard enough to bruise my brother in law who been around him his entire life ( before you say it yes I know the dog needs put down I don't feed man biters period).

Well I was wondering how this could effect cheza, because while she is friendly I've had to work alot harder socializing her then any of my other dogs. Around 4 months she became very timid of people to were I feared she would become a fear biter so I started bringing her out every day to like petsmart. And every weekend to the flea market where everyone and there mama will ask to buy and pet a dog. Now normally I don't bring my dogs that much as I can't stand all those greesy heffers touching my babaies but I saw a dramatic diffrence diffrence in the way she greeted people going from low woof woof hiding behind me to tail wags and wanting lovins.

She still is not overly fond of men but I didn't know if even the timidness came from her sires unstable personality or it just her? Her mom got such bad mange they didn't treat they shot her, her dads an unstable man biter ugh do you see why while I rescue I won't discourage someone from going to a GOOD breeder for a pup!?!
 

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Ok so here is the thing. Cheza sire (if you can even call that byb mutt that) I have just come to find is ha and pretty drmatically and unstablely so. He has bitten his owners nephew who I believe is around 8 on the face, bit the pool guy and bit hard enough to bruise my brother in law who been around him his entire life ( before you say it yes I know the dog needs put down I don't feed man biters period).

Well I was wondering how this could effect cheza, because while she is friendly I've had to work alot harder socializing her then any of my other dogs. Around 4 months she became very timid of people to were I feared she would become a fear biter so I started bringing her out every day to like petsmart. And every weekend to the flea market where everyone and there mama will ask to buy and pet a dog. Now normally I don't bring my dogs that much as I can't stand all those greesy heffers touching my babaies but I saw a dramatic diffrence diffrence in the way she greeted people going from low woof woof hiding behind me to tail wags and wanting lovins.

She still is not overly fond of men but I didn't know if even the timidness came from her sires unstable personality or it just her? Her mom got such bad mange they didn't treat they shot her, her dads an unstable man biter ugh do you see why while I rescue I won't discourage someone from going to a GOOD breeder for a pup!?!
But do you know why he bit? fear ? did they treat him bad? could there have been medical reasons? I think its hard to predict how your dog will be if we dont even know why he was HA in the 1st place. JMO but if you are doing your best at socializing her to new places and people thats a big plus for you and watching for signs of fear or any behavioural flags that might arise. HArd to say that she would show signs of HA when her dad could have had some underlying cause to his.
 

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my crazy little mutt pack
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
But do you know why he bit? fear ? did they treat him bad? could there have been medical reasons? I think its hard to predict how your dog will be if we dont even know why he was HA in the 1st place. JMO but if you are doing your best at socializing her to new places and people thats a big plus for you and watching for signs of fear or any behavioural flags that might arise. HArd to say that she would show signs of HA when her dad could have ha:confused:d some underlying cause to his.
Ya true, ive never meet the dog and really dont have a clue how they raised him. Never met the dog or owner just got this from my brother in law who is real good friends with the owner. Just didnt know if it was any indication as to how cheza has developed since she does quit have the personality ive come to expect from bully breed towards humans. Not that I love her any less of course.
 

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atleast you know about possible issues with the dad and can keep an eye on cheza and work with her like you have been. Its something i would always keep in the back of my head and work to keep her in safe situations where something wont come out of it. Hope it isnt genetic in your case , for cheza's sake :(
 

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Pits Are For Chicks
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american-pit13..so are you saying that the previous owner caused Bee's sister to become HA?
Yes, she returned from them after they lost their house and had to move into their parents with the dog. The dog ended up biting 2 people. I don't know what they did to her, but she was a completely different dog from the well raised well trained dog they had gotten. If she didn't know something she became scared and in turn aggressive towards that thing. The whole rest of the litter have never had a single issue and are great dogs with people. I owned Lil Mom till she was 7 months and she was with me often out at large public events without any issues and loved people before she left.
 

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my crazy little mutt pack
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
atleast you know about possible issues with the dad and can keep an eye on cheza and work with her like you have been. Its something i would always keep in the back of my head and work to keep her in safe situations where something wont come out of it. Hope it isnt genetic in your case , for cheza's sake :(
Ya kinda sucks I know she got her mamas health and we've struggled with that now this is just somthing else to watch for. I think ill star getting her back to the flea market now that its cooling down some, my leather mans gonna be mad seeing her wear someone elses collar lol
 

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Could BYB be somewhat of a cause to HA??? I did have a rescue from a BYB and she did have HA it was very unpredictable she was ok with kids for awhile until one day a little cousin was starring down at her (by the way she was a very dominant dog) and she jumped up and bumped her in the face she didn't bite her, but bumped her. Her mother is also very HA and also came from a BYB.
 

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Could BYB be somewhat of a cause to HA??? I did have a rescue from a BYB and she did have HA it was very unpredictable she was ok with kids for awhile until one day a little cousin was starring down at her (by the way she was a very dominant dog) and she jumped up and bumped her in the face she didn't bite her, but bumped her. Her mother is also very HA and also came from a BYB.
BYB doesnt make a dog HA HOWEVER most BYB dont look at temperments and traits of there dogs alot of them breed to young before all that can even come out and that can cause gentic reasons for HA when you breed a dog who is truely HA and dont put the effort into looking at temperment that can cause HA to be passed down to the pups. Your better off having temperment problems from a BYB dog then a reputable breeder who looks into temperment and genic disorders in there dogs.
 
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That's what I meant since BYB's don't breed for temperament. :) I forgot to add that in lol busy rushing off to work :/
 

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Ok so here is the thing. Cheza sire (if you can even call that byb mutt that) I have just come to find is ha and pretty drmatically and unstablely so. He has bitten his owners nephew who I believe is around 8 on the face, bit the pool guy and bit hard enough to bruise my brother in law who been around him his entire life ( before you say it yes I know the dog needs put down I don't feed man biters period).

Well I was wondering how this could effect cheza, because while she is friendly I've had to work alot harder socializing her then any of my other dogs. Around 4 months she became very timid of people to were I feared she would become a fear biter so I started bringing her out every day to like petsmart. And every weekend to the flea market where everyone and there mama will ask to buy and pet a dog. Now normally I don't bring my dogs that much as I can't stand all those greesy heffers touching my babaies but I saw a dramatic diffrence diffrence in the way she greeted people going from low woof woof hiding behind me to tail wags and wanting lovins.

She still is not overly fond of men but I didn't know if even the timidness came from her sires unstable personality or it just her? Her mom got such bad mange they didn't treat they shot her, her dads an unstable man biter ugh do you see why while I rescue I won't discourage someone from going to a GOOD breeder for a pup!?!
I think genetics and breeding is a huge factor in HA and overall temperament. It is not the only contributing factor but I see a lot of crappy breeding and the results would be HA, DA (extreme in breed that are not DA), weak nerves, and so on. I do think environment has a lot to do with it too, I have placed well balanced dogs and get them back as train wrecks. The same argument can be made that you can get an abused APBT who was just treated horribly and never taken anywhere and when they are rescued they remain the sweetest non HA dogs even when you would expect some issues. It talks volume on how important temperament can be. You also cannot tell true temperament in some dogs till they hit maturity around 1-2.5 years of age. You can have the best dog in the world then one day it changes as they hit maturity, you see it in dog who turn on to DA with little warning once they mature and the same with HA. I would watch for for signs as she matures and it sounds like you are doing everything you can to keep her from going in that direction. Don't worry too much unless it really proves to be an issue.
 

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To preserve the breed, the most important factor is ending the HA traits in dogs. It comes from both genetics and enviroment. But genetics is the overiding factor. Too many HA dogs out there. The fault lies more in those who buy them than those who breed them....General rule is, if they bite one, they'll bite another. Therefore, bury the dog before it does harm, no matter what. Never breed a HA dog, ever.
 

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my crazy little mutt pack
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I think genetics and breeding is a huge factor in HA and overall temperament. It is not the only contributing factor but I see a lot of crappy breeding and the results would be HA, DA (extreme in breed that are not DA), weak nerves, and so on. I do think environment has a lot to do with it too, I have placed well balanced dogs and get them back as train wrecks. The same argument can be made that you can get an abused APBT who was just treated horribly and never taken anywhere and when they are rescued they remain the sweetest non HA dogs even when you would expect some issues. It talks volume on how important temperament can be. You also cannot tell true temperament in some dogs till they hit maturity around 1-2.5 years of age. You can have the best dog in the world then one day it changes as they hit maturity, you see it in dog who turn on to DA with little warning once they mature and the same with HA. I would watch for for signs as she matures and it sounds like you are doing everything you can to keep her from going in that direction. Don't worry too much unless it really proves to be an issue.
well she 17months now so i'm really hopping she if will not blossum stays were she at now as far as how she is with people. now that is cooler i'm gonna through her back out into the "lets make friends" rutine and am starting the flea market tomorrow. it really is a good place with so many people and no other dogs she has to come in contact with which just makes my life easier. thanks for your reply i'll just stay hopfully optimistic that she will always be my good girl lol

To preserve the breed, the most important factor is ending the HA traits in dogs. It comes from both genetics and enviroment. But genetics is the overiding factor. Too many HA dogs out there. The fault lies more in those who buy them than those who breed them....General rule is, if they bite one, they'll bite another. Therefore, bury the dog before it does harm, no matter what. Never breed a HA dog, ever.
i 100% agree, its call supply and demand if they can make money off it they most certainly will continue doing what made them that money.
now if that was directed at me, well i don't buy mutts, that stupid and i don't agree in "rescueing" a dog from a byb by buying it because same thing supply and demand. i have to many mutts dropped in my lap to try to activly go out and seek one. my brother in law took cheza from his friend becuase they put her outside a 6 weeks old away from the mom and other litter mates "because she had fleas". in all actuality she did have some fleas but it was the demodextic mange that was killing her. the doctor said it was the worst case of mange she had ever seen with 25 mites per view (not per slide PER VIEW). so i took her from my BIL and have kept her since and she has been a joy beside some major health issue and a few behavioral problems with strangers but that has only been a small percentage of her overall amazingness!!!!
thanks for your reply hyde
 
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