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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
But I don't think it was an aggressive snap, just a "hey, you better back off" snap. It wouldn't have made contact with Kane at all.

It's been raining and storming pretty heavily all day (up until the last 2-3 hours) and they'd been cooped up inside, running crazy cause they hadn't had any exercise.

I tried really hard to give them things to do, like playing the "Find It!" game and wrestling with them a bit, but they were still getting a little ragged around the edges cause they hadn't gotten the chance to go outside and play some hardcore fetch.

I gave them both a kong with peanut butter inside, to give them something to work on. Roxie was working on her kong on one end of the rug and Kane with his on the other end. I was sitting on the couch, watching tv, eating, and keeping an eye on them.

Everything was hunky-dory. Every now and then they'd look at each other, look at the other's kong, and run over and switch kongs. Same as always.

I noticed Kane slinking over towards Roxie, sniffing around, eyeing her kong, even though it didn't look like Roxie was agreeing to a kong switch then. I told Kane to "get back" just as Roxie looked up from the kong and snapped at Kane.

I immediately yelled "HEY!" to grab their attention and ran over there, grabbing Roxie by the collar and taking her to the other side of the room. I told them both to lay down and stay, which they did. I picked up all the toys and put them away and let them have a time out. About 10-15 mins later, after they'd started falling asleep, I let them get up again.

Like I said, there was no real aggression on Roxie's part, no hard look, no hackles, nothing, just a quick snap. Is this what the beginning of DA looks like though?

Anything I can do in the future to prevent this?
 

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Pits Are For Chicks
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Not having toys, food, or anything they might decide they don't want to share is a safer way of keeping them together.
 

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OCD Bullyologist
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I agree with Holly. Bones and toys with yummy stuff inside is how many fights happen so I don't think I would give them things like that together anymore. I'd crate both of them for things like that or put them in separate rooms. Better safe than sorry.
 

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Roxy did nothing wrong Kane shouldnt be bothering her while workjg on that kong. You should be thankful that all she did was warn him. When this happens again correct Kane not Roxy, off course if Roxy ever does it to Kane you do the same. I don't think you should be hiding or keeping their stuff away because you want them to make the mistake so you can immediately correct them so they know what they did wrong. Howver, I wouldn't leave them alone for 1 minute if each one has a resource. In my home there is no resource guarding allowed coming from Bernie howver, I let the chiwawa correct Bernie if he ever gets near him while chewing on something. Bernie tried couple of times when he was a puppy and peanut quickly put him in his place now Bernie respects peanuts space an will not dare to invade his personal space. Look at them when they eat, watch the whole video until the end when Bernie leaves the kitchen to let peanut finish eating.

 
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davidfitness83 said:
Roxy did nothing wrong Kane shouldnt be bothering her while workjg on that kong. You should be thankful that all she did was warn him. When this happens again correct Kane not Roxy, off course if Roxy ever does it to Kane you do the same. I don't think you should be hiding or keeping their stuff away because you want them to make the mistake so you can immediately correct them so they know what they did wrong. Howver, I wouldn't leave them alone for 1 minute if each one has a resource. In my home there is no resource guarding allowed coming from Bernie howver, I let the chiwawa correct Bernie if he ever gets near him while chewing on something. Bernie tried couple of times when he was a puppy and peanut quickly put him in his place now Bernie respects peanuts space an will not dare to invade his personal space. Look at them when they eat, watch the whole video until the end when Bernie leaves the kitchen to let peanut finish eating.
:goodpost: David, thank you so much for sharing that link with k8nkane. It's always nice to have something visual for the "new" folks to look at to be able to better understand what you're talking about.

K8nkane- I concur with everyone that's posted before me. Don't have them in the same room together with coveted or prized possessions like food, bones, or toys unless you're absolutely sure you can prevent an accident from happening. David's video is wonderful for you to learn from, but that takes a lot of time, effort and work put in for you to have your dogs on that level of obedience, no matter what resource is available to them.

In answer to your question,
k8nkane said:
Is this what the beginning of DA looks like though?
No, this is not the beginning of DA. This is simply protection of food/toys and SHOULD NOT be tolerated EVER.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I was in the process of correcting Kane when Roxie snapped at him; that's what "Get back" means to my pups -- they are too close to whatever it is they are approaching and they need to take a couple steps back.

It was my fault on that, however, because I was too slow. I should've corrected Kane when he began to approach Roxie, not when he was already next to her.

I didn't correct Roxie at all. I simply separated them from the situation and Roxie happened to be closer to me.


Edit: Don't have time to watch video right now, but will do so later tonight.
 

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:goodpost: David, thank you so much for sharing that link with k8nkane. It's always nice to have something visual for the "new" folks to look at to be able to better understand what you're talking about.

K8nkane- I concur with everyone that's posted before me. Don't have them in the same room together with coveted or prized possessions like food, bones, or toys unless you're absolutely sure you can prevent an accident from happening. David's video is wonderful for you to learn from, but that takes a lot of time, effort and work put in for you to have your dogs on that level of obedience, no matter what resource is available to them.

In answer to your question, No, this is not the beginning of DA. This is simply protection of food/toys and SHOULD NOT be tolerated EVER.
No problem I love to help out and I learn something new everyday. I love to document silly videos like these because who knows when someone might try to call my dog vicious lol

K8nKane- simple correction is all you need, if you separate them or take them away to a time out they will soon forget what happened. Remember dogs don't have a lot of time memory punishments like "time outs" or crating away does no good if it is done for too long. the dog will quickly forget what he did and won't know the reaction to this action.

Simply give them those types of objects when you have 100% control and view of the scenario. Start by keeping them at a safe distance away from each other since this will buy you time to correct before they get too close to each other. However, if you do it right the disrespectful dog should get the hint from the dog correcting that it should not invade his space and then you can follow with your correction as well. But make sure that you are 100% fair with both dogs, so if the correcting dog tries to take the other dogs resource next time you must correct as well.

To make things easier for you, you should have an order of the pack visualized so you know who is at the bottom. IN my opinion, I like to keep the more physically powerful one on the bottom of the pack so it will challenge those lower ranked than me less and will obviously take my corrections more serious.

The order of my pack is:
(1)My wife and I >(2)tara(my first female cat the queen)> (3)Khloe (my second female cat) > (4)Peanut the chiwawa> (5)Romeo ( my bullcat he could possibly kill peanut if he wanted to that is why he is ranked lower) and Finally all the way at the bottom is (6)Bernie.. Every animal before him gets treats/water or any resource before him, he is always the last one to get anything cool and this keeps him in check, one finger snap from me and Bernie and Romeo will comply immediately lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
IN my opinion, I like to keep the more physically powerful one on the bottom of the pack so it will challenge those lower ranked than me less and will obviously take my corrections more serious.
Thank you, David.

Could you please explain the blurb I quoted? It seems to me that a more physically powerful dog would challenge more?
 

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Thank you, David.

Could you please explain the blurb I quoted? It seems to me that a more physically powerful dog would challenge more?
You have to be able to analyze which dog can cause the more damage if it decided to challenge or act up. For exmaple, my Bernie is 80 pounds and can pretty much do anything he wants with his power. So what I do is limit his dominance and lower his ranking, see we cannot compete with these dogs physically, at the end of the day they are stronger than us. However, if we can compete with them mentally and control their resources they have no choice but to comply and adjust to live. Since I know that the lower ranked member of the pack is less likely to challenge those above him, I keep Bernie right there and this forces him to pretty much wait for my approval and doesn't challenge any of the animals above him. Romeo which is the big bullcat he can cause a lot of damage to the chiwawa and the other cats so he is ranked at the lower end of the pack as well.

Now I do not want to take all the credit for this, Bernie has a natural disposition for submission. It might have been the puppy socials, the social days, the obedience class we took plus all of the uncomfortable scenarios I put him through when he was a little tiny pup. But he is extremely obedient and he is a very confident dog. I know many can argue against this but I read in an Ian Dunbar's book about the puppy's brain and the stage when it will accept anything and I pretty much put Bernie through every scenario that I can think of from 8 weeks to 4 months old. According to Ian Dunbar the brain acceptance stage closes at this time and it is more difficult for the dog to accept new scenarios. Before he was able to go to puppy class since he was not fully vaccinated I used to take him every saturday morning in the shopping cart to petco and have 1000 people pet him all over the place, his ears, tail, paws. He met every kind of person and all types of energy. This made Bernie extremely confident around people and he doesn't know a stranger. Before he was able to meet other puppies he hung out with three hearding dogs, two adolescent dogs that pretty much taught him how to play and you will never see Bernie try to wrestle he plays like a cattle dog and all he wants to do is run and chase which is exactly what I wanted. He also got mentoring from my inlaws GSD senior bitch that taught him manners anytime he got out of line. At this point he can go up to a chihuahua and he will learn to back off if he crosses their space. Anyhow, so I can stop rambling on Bernie has developed very sophisticated social skills and he understands when he is disrespecting another dog however at the sametime he knows his place in the pack and the cats can climb on his tail when is chewing on a bone and he will not care. I respect his eating time and there are no cats allowed in the kitch and I give him all the time and peace and quietness to enjoy his meals. I knock on wood but besides the inevitable dog agression that my arrive at any time he is a well balanced dog with humans and I couldn't be happier.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I'd never thought to add an "out" command to their mealtimes. They already know to sit and wait for me to let them eat. Roxie is always done eating first and she'll sort of just wander around, though she never intrudes on Kane's bowl. Kane would probably have a go at Roxie's bowl if he ever finished first ... Thought it was funny that the first couple of times you gave the Out command, he decided he'd better make sure his food bowl was REALLY empty first, ha.

If we go by the dog that would cause more damage, it would probably be Roxie. She's just all-around more dominant and has more of that pitbull stubbornness. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if my bf would agree with giving her everything last. He has the tendency to baby her.
 

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I'd never thought to add an "out" command to their mealtimes. They already know to sit and wait for me to let them eat. Roxie is always done eating first and she'll sort of just wander around, though she never intrudes on Kane's bowl. Kane would probably have a go at Roxie's bowl if he ever finished first ... Thought it was funny that the first couple of times you gave the Out command, he decided he'd better make sure his food bowl was REALLY empty first, ha.

If we go by the dog that would cause more damage, it would probably be Roxie. She's just all-around more dominant and has more of that pitbull stubbornness. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if my bf would agree with giving her everything last. He has the tendency to baby her.
Well you can show him the video and he can see for him self how a 80 pound powerful pitbull can eat with a 6 pound chiwawa and a cat in the room and never show an inch of agression. If he loves that dog that much I am sure he would want her to act this way right?:)
 
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