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Pits Are For Chicks
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Why is it that a dog being blue now makes it an American Bully by default? So a dog doesn't have to have papers of American Bully lines any more, it just has to be large a blue right? Thats what GoPitbull members has been promoting the last several months. Every blue dog here gets" Its probably an American Bully from 1 post of pictures.

So if people come on here with a fawn dog thats small we can start saying those are APBT then right??

Bloodlines make the breed. Not looks and not capabilities. Dog fighting at one point was the foundation of the APBT, however that is illegal and most of us care about keeping this breed around without being charged with dog fighting. Dogs that are not gamebred or fought can also be APBT..Many breeds of dogs were fought and game yet where not APBT so no fighting the dog doesn't make it a breed.. Debate that to your self all you want I will not argue it as thats your opinion you can have it all you want.

Amstaff lines make Amstaffs, APBT lines make APBTs, and American Bully lines make.....You guessed it AMERICAN BULLIES. Being overweight and blue doesn't make it an American Bully...
 

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anything black has the possibility of throwing blue. thats why there are humans with blue eyes.

everything else you said is a huge can of worms so ill just leave what i said in my first sentence as that.
 

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Pits Are For Chicks
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
anything black has the possibility of throwing blue. \
Agreed as that is a FACT. However a lot of people here I have seen throwing out he statement that a dog must be American Bully due to color and while that is very often true just because Bullies are commonly blue it doesn't mean all blue dogs are bullies.

I just think its bad education to be throwing out that a dog must be a certain breed by 1 post we see with no ped, yet if it is resembling an APBT and not an American Bully then its a debate on what the dog is...

You have to prove so much to come here and say you a have an APBT, but anything people want to label a bully papers or not gets that label. Which to me is as bad as every unpapered pit bull looking dog being called a pit.
 

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I feel that it is because the bully breed is way more common now days at least where i am i located, and every bully owner says they have a pit. Which they are not...thats why true apbt lovers put their guard up, just because there are so many false claims of owning a "pit bull" and they get tired of seeing these idiots with dogs that are clearly not the breed they claim. Thats way i feel you have to prove you have a true apbt. I may be wrong but thats my opinion.
 

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Pits Are For Chicks
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Just as APBT owners don't like Bullies being called APBTs, why does anyone think that Bully owners like every large mutt called a Bully?

We all understand the Bullies are not APBT debate. Its everything else getting called Bully thats the problem now. There are just as many false claims of people owning or being told they own an "American Bully" when it is not one.
 

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I'm the blue dragon!
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I see where ur coming from, and im not really sure what to say in regards towards ur observation. I have always been a supporter of "if u don't have papers, u don't know what u have". I've tried to use the term American Shelter Dog more often but people often look at me funny. To the mass public I have a "blue nose pit".... point blank.
 

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This drives me nuts too. Too many things are slapped "American Bully" if they don't have papers. If it's not papered don't label it anything than a mix or a generic encompassing term, or maaaaybe give it a type. Like "Bully breed" "Shepherd" "Hound"

Another thing that drives me nuts is the APBT who act as though the American Bullies that look like APBTs are the "correct" dogs. The Ambully has it's own correct look, it's own standard... I could rant on and on about it.
 

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Pits Are For Chicks
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
This drives me nuts too. Too many things are slapped "American Bully" if they don't have papers. If it's not papered don't label it anything than a mix or a generic encompassing term, or maaaaybe give it a type. Like "Bully breed" "Shepherd" "Hound"

Another thing that drives me nuts is the APBT who act as though the American Bullies that look like APBTs are the "correct" dogs. The Ambully has it's own correct look, it's own standard... I could rant on and on about it.
:thumbsup:100% as to what I am going on about lol.
 

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Great post. There are people on here who think APBT cant be blue but there can be UKC apbt dogs that are blue. All comes down to the same thing when people post " what is my dog" you can not tell by looking at the dog in all cases you NEED to see the paper work. You can american bullys who fit more to the UKC standard then ABKC , so looks alone can be deceiving.
 

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Work them Pet Bulls!
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Looks can be deceiving and this is why I have a hard time calling my bitch an American Bully. If you judged by looking at her ped and saw the RE/Watchdog and then looked at her color she would automatically be labeled as such which she has on here. However being scatterbred it's obvious she isn't bully and no where near conforms to the looks of one. I went to an ABKC show a few months ago and Bella would have been laughed out the show ring LOL! I came across a dude that grew up around my way who had a few working APBT's doing WP demos and a couple whopper dogs and that's more what my Bella resembles. After reading and learning about the breed for the past two years and talking to people on here I think I have been able to form my own opinion of my dog and calling her an Am bully because she has some RE and watchdog isn't something I will do. Until ya'll see her in person and put your hands on her then you can't tell me what I have.....until then I will tell you and for now I'll just call her a bulldog ;)
 

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English Dogge Yard
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This is why i say American Bully mix or AST mix or Bulldog mix.. I don't believe i've ever stated "Its a Bully" based on color alone however i have said something along the lines of it if they state "RE" or "Gotti"..

There are NOT many "blue" Bulldogs/APBTs out there, never has been all the way to present day.. The color "blue" indicates something is or was more than likely crossed along the way, TYPICALLY Bully or AST..

The fact there are SO many American Bully breeders out there, legit OR BYB also raises the likely hood of a "blue" dog being at very least mixed with the breed.. After all, look at how many blue (known) Bullies there are out there.. That particular dilution in the gene pool is virtually found in EVERY AmBully PED within 4 generations... Of course, not all but i'd say at least 80%.. Just about all Bullies i've come across are also of the gene..

Bloodlines do not define the APBT rather function and ability.. Of course this debate is run in the ground anytime its brought up however it has ALWAYS been Bulldogs and Bandogs until otherwise proven in the [] as a pit dog aka Pit Bull Terrier aka APBT.

I have just kept my mouth shut mostly on all these "APBT" threads as none of which are proven thus most are Bulldogs of APBT blood.. Not a derogatory just stating the facts.

People are FAR too hung up on registries, what the PED is listed as and what they feel is right by name.. These Bulldogs/APBTs are not show dogs nor should be defined by registries.. If they work they work if they don't they don't.. Entire reason for the AST to separate function and exist as one is due to the need of having a performance or show Bulldog/APBT.. Take out the unneeded functions that are not required for that of showing and earning titles the way of the game.. Leaving the dividing line a fine one, black and white particularly in todays dogs.. Never been more so clearer.

UKC dogs are AMSTAFFS with MAYBE a few exceptions.. Anyone who thinks the dilute of black is common among Bulldogs OR APBTs shouldn't really be talking as they aren't aware of the genetics within the lines and history.. Can it happen? Sure, does it in frequent? No. Why do you think there was only a handful of "blue" game dogs? The color didn't just magically pop up and stay post 76'. Thats like the argument of Merle..

Appearance does not define a working breed, nor registry nor ped in both registered and written.. People get tired of hearing it because everyone says they understand it yet every time the topic gets brought up everyone argues it.

An American Bully that has no crossing in the generations that appears more "Bulldog/APBT" in appearance is just a genetic throw back of the Bulldog that was used in foundation... Unless crossed back over than theres your answer.

I can go on, the topic can go on and the "debate" can go on. If you understand it and understand exactly where im coming from great, stop debating it. If you don't or disagree great, that is your opinion and theres no reason to go further since it always ends the same.. 10 pages of the same old tune ending in the same way.. Everyone thinks they are right and no one wants to accept that the men who created knows far more than anyone, that there are STILL in every sense of APBTs being bred and proven both in this country AND out, there are STILL Bulldogs being used to function in legal aspect that are NOT that of registry oriented AKA show Bulldog AKA AST...

I've said it before, if proving Bulldogs/Bandogs were still legal in this country today virtually all these debates, topics etc. would fail to exist or carry weight.. It is ALL legal debates in essence.

As to the "blue" = American Bully, i agree it doesn't always add up to one tight knit package however it DOES mean the likely hood of Bulldog/APBT is virtually none.. Especially in the "what is my dog?" threads and such. Unknowns are unknowns, period.

All in all odds ARE heavily massed dog that appears to fit relatively within the American Bully standards as the American Bully is DEFINED by its purpose of SHOW standard and companion thus this and the dilution of black creates a likely hood of yes, potential American Bully mix or purebred.. Do we know without knowning whats genetically behind the dog? Of course not.. Persistent on a guess of answer, AmBully cross or Bulldog mix as a generic meaning.. Or MUTT...

I am sick of people defining work stock hounds as what bloodline or what registry says and the unwillingness to accept the term MUTT with unknowns.
 

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I hear what you are saying and understand where you are coming from, but I agree, if I hear RE and pit bull and the dog is Blue, I say Bully, not APBT even if UKC registered, but I hear ya I know its "wrong" and understood that papers or known history is what is important. I think most people try to get that point across to people.
 
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English Dogge Yard
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I hear what you are saying and understand where you are coming from, but I agree, if I hear RE and pit bull and the dog is Blue, I say Bully, not APBT even if UKC registered, but I hear ya I know its "wrong" and understood that papers or known history is what is important. I think most people try to get that point across to people.
I honestly don't think i've seen much of this whole "large dog that is blue = Bully" from OP.. Then again, i usually stay out threads like that to begin with, too many of them and same old story..

If theres not function to work, don't reference to a breed that is designed for that function and yadda yadda yadda.. It has all been said before.
 

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Pits Are For Chicks
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
You base much of your opinions on what WAS an APBT back in the day. In this day and age its a whole new ball game and the rules have changed. The large majority of people who own and represent this breed do not fight dogs nor hold any worth to it. They compete in legal sports and events to do what they can do LEGALLY with their dogs. Others just own and take good care of them. There are those that end up causing issues rather than helping but this forum alone if full of people who represent these dogs and maybe 1% have dogs you would call APBT.

Has it changed the dogs? Most definitely I do not agree that UKC APBTS and Game dogs are one in the same however they are all APBT. One has been taken in a different direction, but the breed as of any of todays standards are the same.

This will always be one persons opinion of what is and isn't no matter what.

Many UKC and AKC dogs look to be classic bully or just plain Bully but are not. My thing is that people are automatically throwing the American Bully term out there and not even giving possible UKC dog or Amstaff or unknown... So then these new people think they have an American Bully when they do not lmao.

Many of them do I agree, but its an assumption that I have seen placed on several new members dogs before they even find out if the dog has papers much less be a distinct breed of dog.
 

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Pits Are For Chicks
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I hear what you are saying and understand where you are coming from, but I agree, if I hear RE and pit bull and the dog is Blue, I say Bully, not APBT even if UKC registered, but I hear ya I know its "wrong" and understood that papers or known history is what is important. I think most people try to get that point across to people.
Having papers is different. When its blue and they say RE and have no papers it not a bully its a mutt no different than the unpapered Colby dogs that have come through.
 

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KMDogs; I agree with you for the most part. But whats funny to me is, back in the day if we used the word "Bulldog" in reference to someones apbt. It meant he was the real deal!
As in, "that dog is a real bulldog", or " he is all bulldog", or "that dog there is a bulldog". These where phrases of it's working ability. So what your saying is call it a bulldog if it is NOT a proven working dog. People that have been around awhile might be thrown off for a second by that, but OK. But why not just say "He/she is of the apbt breed"
But I do agree on the "Mutt or Mongrel" for the unknowns.
 

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Having papers is different. When its blue and they say RE and have no papers it not a bully its a mutt no different than the unpapered Colby dogs that have come through.
agreed, but if someone states that their dog is Colby or RE lines they MUST have papers or know the history because how else would they know they were RE or Colby? You have to assume people are telling the truth until they say some stupid comment which shows they are full of shit for you to call them out. I'm not one to call people out unless they give me a reason too.

I also have come to see how much its a matter of perspective, I mean the AmStaff is a breed. the APBT is a breed. Calling UKC dogs AmStaff because they were not bred for the [] doesn't seem correct if your perspective is they are 2 separate breeds. I have heard people state all show dogs are AmStaff no matter where they are registered ADBA included, that's such crap to me especially when trying to explain how important is it to call your dog what breed it is, then to have people come on with papers and know their history and be told cause they don't work or fight their dog its not a true APBT. Talk about confusing the new people! lol
 
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KMDogs; I agree with you for the most part. But whats funny to me is, back in the day if we used the word "Bulldog" in reference to someones apbt. It meant he was the real deal!
As in, "that dog is a real bulldog", or " he is all bulldog", or "that dog there is a bulldog". These where phrases of it's working ability. So what your saying is call it a bulldog if it is NOT a proven working dog. People that have been around awhile might be thrown off for a second by that, but OK. But why not just say "He/she is of the apbt breed"
But I do agree on the "Mutt or Mongrel" for the unknowns.
Exactly. "Bulldog" is APBT...and this goes way back. Not trying to debate it, besides it's been debated before LOL! I suppose we all get "hung up" on various labels :)
 

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English Dogge Yard
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KMDogs; I agree with you for the most part. But whats funny to me is, back in the day if we used the word "Bulldog" in reference to someones apbt. It meant he was the real deal!
As in, "that dog is a real bulldog", or " he is all bulldog", or "that dog there is a bulldog". These where phrases of it's working ability. So what your saying is call it a bulldog if it is NOT a proven working dog. People that have been around awhile might be thrown off for a second by that, but OK. But why not just say "He/she is of the apbt breed"
But I do agree on the "Mutt or Mongrel" for the unknowns.
Bulldogs are not proven box dogs, they are proven all around working animals with proven functions and abilities without game.. The APBT is the game Bulldog.. Earning the title after proving itself through matches..

All i have read going back to 1800s, the "old timers" that mentored myself through the years and own experiences would beg to differ that Bulldog equals game dog..

Bulldogs ARE working stock, yes. NOT box dogs, pit dogs, APBT what have you..

Bulldog can also be used as a generic term if you will for the modern ages.

While yes those phrases were used, notably Colby himself stated numerously..All Bulldogs or Bandogs until otherwise proven..Many others believed in this as well, pure, simple and direct.

I.E I would NOT take a AST out on a hog, coyote, deer, etc... A Bulldog OR Bandog bred firstly for, HIGH end Bulldog if you will.. Absolutely.. Game dogs.. APBTs.. Narrowed and perfected mentality for matching dog to dog.. No longer Bull Baitors, Bulldogs, Catch weight... The difference in mentality is quite clear.
 
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