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oh i'm going to try and find a way to keep this short but then again i am not entirely sure i can. So, please bear with me.

I adopted Coco in April from a lady who rescued her and did not have the means to take care of her and this girls parents were going to take coco to the pound. So Cal shelters in MY experience either instantly put to sleep or try half heartedly to find a suitable home.

Coco was baited and severly beaten and neglected then abandoned. This girl nursed her back to health and then we adopted her.

She has a lot of excessive baggage and at times is purely neurotic. She hates men, and if your a bald male she'll either get pretty aggressive or she'll retreat. I am 6ft 4 and at times she gets spooked and nervous around me. Yea i've been nipped a few times. Suffice to say before anyone she doesn't know comes in my house she's properly introduced. I tell them the usual. no eye contact and just ignore her. it works well for the most part.

I have been working on her socialization with people for a while now and got things on an even keel for the most part. I just make the bald guys wear hats when they come over.

The girl i got her from had other dogs and there were no issues with other animals other than cats. no DA and no HA.

Fast forward.

We adopted another pitbull and this time we adopted Toby our male. We introduced them on neutral territory and took them for a long extensive walk together. I even chose a different route than i normally take. Everything worked out well and everyone was comfortable. There were no raised tails, no ears back, no raised fur and no growls or barks. just playfulness.

this goes on for about a week and a half. mind you both are crated and are constantly supervised when they are not crated. I walk both on a leash at the same time and they both heel and are now well behaved on the leash. they are fed in crates so there is no Food Aggro. I have the crates setup so they cannot even see each other while they are eating.

Coco started the first fight. Toby finished it before it even started. she layed into him and before i could get to either of them he had her by the neck and slammed her into the ground and just held her there. He released her on command and backed off.

a few days later........Toby rushed by my son coming in from outside and made a bee line right for Coco. This time there was no gentle nothing from either of them. Both dogs got some bite marks and a couple of cuts. She took the worst of it. She only weighs 60lbs and he weighs 90-95. I can yell all i want trying to get to them. He will stop, she will not.

they will play together in the back yard until mister big oaf gets too rough then she'll start baring teeth and growling. That doesn't stop him any and he'd keep right on playing up to a certain extent and then it's not playing anymore.

This morning he was on the other side of the yard doing his own thing and no where close to her and she tried to pearl harbor him from behind. (sneak attack).

I am at my wits end. i've resorted to keeping one crated and alternating walks, and time in the yard. yet as i write this both are laying on the floor no more than 10 feet apart. If i leave it will be another story all together and my wife will be calling me frantic.

Toby is well adjusted and has been formally socialized with both people and other dogs. The only animal he comes unglued over is cats.

Anyhow at this very moment and time i'm flustered and wondering how much is my fault and what was i thinkin bringin another dog around.

any help or advice is more than welcomed.

thanks for your time.

Liam
 

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Ok...from what I read, your female Coco was abused before you got her. That why she hate men. Or fears them. This will take time to correct. You must gain her trust and never raise your voice at her,

Your male is 90-95#? That why he'll stop. No APBT weighs that much. She is a bulldog, through and through if she won't quit. Jusging by her weight, she must have red nose dogs in her. You can control situation only when she trusts you. Can't get it out, as it's inborn in her. But after time, you should be able to control it.

But if you have to keep em separate, so what? What you expect? True bulldogs always love contact, there no avoiding it. Not your fault. It genetics and instincts, which can't be controlled in the end!
 

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Knowing her condition you have to be right on top of them. I've nipped a few potential fights in the bud by being right on top of them. My female is the most DA out of my dogs so when I see her with that "I'm done playing with you" look then I know it's back in the dog run for her.

How long have the 2 been together? How old are they? Who knows why they are fighting? Could be that ABPT instinct done kicked in overtime? They could be like oil & water. The male sounds like a Bully from my understanding they don't have the same desire to kill other dogs like the APBT does. You can try the walks in the parks/beaches or whatever but those 2 cant be left alone. It just may have to be that way forever with them.
 

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Ok...from what I read, your female Coco was abused before you got her. That why she hate men. Or fears them. This will take time to correct. You must gain her trust and never raise your voice at her,

Your male is 90-95#? That why he'll stop. No APBT weighs that much. She is a bulldog, through and through if she won't quit. Jusging by her weight, she must have red nose dogs in her. You can control situation only when she trusts you. Can't get it out, as it's inborn in her. But after time, you should be able to control it.

But if you have to keep em separate, so what? What you expect? True bulldogs always love contact, there no avoiding it. Not your fault. It genetics and instincts, which can't be controlled in the end!
" Jusging by her weight, she must have red nose dogs in her. "
:rolleyes:what?
 

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" Jusging by her weight, she must have red nose dogs in her. "
:rolleyes:what?
If you do your study you'll find OFRN females weigh more than other females of the APBT breed. Also if you consider she ain't no quitter. OFRN dogs are known for gameness. Even non ped dogs of this strain can have more than fully ped PR UKC dogs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Coco is a 1 year old female, and Toby is a 2 year old Male. erm thought i explained this in the original post but i guess i didn't. all though i have never heard of a dogs weight defining his breed. so, now that i'm confused i'll just post pics of my dogs. To me a pitbull is a pitbull. no matter abpt am staff or what ever. Guess i could be wrong or just naive. someone feel free to set me straight lol.

here's the pics.................................... Black and White is Coco. Red Nose is Toby
 

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Coco is a 1 year old female, and Toby is a 2 year old Male. erm thought i explained this in the original post but i guess i didn't. all though i have never heard of a dogs weight defining his breed. so, now that i'm confused i'll just post pics of my dogs. To me a pitbull is a pitbull. no matter abpt am staff or what ever. Guess i could be wrong or just naive. someone feel free to set me straight lol.
If an APBT tops 75 lbs. it is very odd. Nose color matters little, but for her to be that weight, I was simply guessing she had OFRN in her, as they generally are a larger strain of APBT. Without papers there ain't no proof. And there IS a difference between an Am Staff and an APBT! And a BIG differance between an APBT and a "pitbull." "Pitbull" is the generic term nowadays for any mixture of dogs or BYB "pits" and what not. They don't come close to what an APBT really is, specifically intelligence.
 

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yeah there are a bunch of kinds of dogs people refer to as pit bulls. The only true American Pit Bull Terrier is usually 40-60lbs. some are as low as 30lbs but not many are higher. American Staffordshire terriers run a few more lbs. American Bully's can hit over 100lbs. They are all referred to as Pit Bulls, but only one is the actual APBT. Weight and the look of the dog defines it as its breed, but if you dog does not have papers saying what bloodlines you have, you can never know if you have a true American Pit Bull or a American Staffordshire, or a Bully or a mix of them a few lines. I used to think AST and APBT were like a yellow lab and a black lab, same dog different colors. That's not the case. They were bred for very different things and have since evolved into their own breed.

As far as socialization, you don't need to be socialized (with other animals) when you have been bred to go after other dogs or abused and not sure what the situation was in their past, its in their genes. NEVER trust a bull dog not to fight. As far as the post saying the one that weights more is a red nose, well that's just a color and is not a bloodline. She could have a black nose or a yellow nose and still have been bred generations back to fight. Keep doing what you are doing never leaving them alone. take them on walks together and let them be around new things while in a controlled leashed environment, keeping in mind you may have to live a life crating and rotating them and never ever have them off leash together again. There are lots of people who live this life and I am sure one of them will chime in at some point.

and your pups are super cute :)
 
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As far as socialization, you don't need to be socialized (with other animals) when you have been bred to go after other dogs or abused and not sure what the situation was in their past, its in their genes. NEVER trust a bull dog not to fight. As far as the post saying the one that weights more is a red nose, well that's just a color and is not a bloodline. She could have a black nose or a yellow nose and still have been bred generations back to fight. Keep doing what you are doing never leaving them alone. take them on walks together and let them be around new things while in a controlled leashed environment, keeping in mind you may have to live a life crating and rotating them and never ever have them off leash together again. There are lots of people who live this life and I am sure one of them will chime in at some point.
Ok to set it straight, I was merely assuming she had it in her, as all modern dogs have OFRN blood in em way back. But I forget sometimes that nowadays evryone be breeding who-knows-what to whatever, and things get lost. In the old days, any dog with a pit weight above 50 lbs was generally an OFRN dog. They were the titans of the dog world, and a 60 lb female is rather big.
 

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" Jusging by her weight, she must have red nose dogs in her. "
:rolleyes:what?
If you do your study you'll find OFRN females weigh more than other females of the APBT breed. Also if you consider she ain't no quitter. OFRN dogs are known for gameness. Even non ped dogs of this strain can have more than fully ped PR UKC dogs.
They adopted this dog from a shelter you cannot go spouting off bloodlines when you are only making an educated guess. Without paper work there is no facts this dog has ANY ofrn and any old pit bull type can weigh that amount and have a red color'd nose. Since when does weight and nose color make the bloodline?
 

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Ok to set it straight, I was merely assuming she had it in her, as all modern dogs have OFRN blood in em way back. But I forget sometimes that nowadays evryone be breeding who-knows-what to whatever, and things get lost. In the old days, any dog with a pit weight above 50 lbs was generally an OFRN dog. They were the titans of the dog world, and a 60 lb female is rather big.
its all good, I wasn't arguing your point, just trying to clarify. side question though, not every ORFN dog has a red nose right, or do they? Is that a way to tell is someone is full of poo if they said its OFRN and the dog doesn't have a red nose?
 

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its all good, I wasn't arguing your point, just trying to clarify. side question though, not every ORFN dog has a red nose right, or do they? Is that a way to tell is someone is full of poo if they said its OFRN and the dog doesn't have a red nose?
Ok, to keep it simple, no, not every red nose dog is an OFRN dog. But to be classified as an OFRN dog, yes, it must have a red nose. Heck, Tudor's Dibo was full of red nose dogs, but he was black nose! The only way to know your dog is an authentic OFRN dog is to get it from a known breeder, with the peds to prove it, and I'm not talking a paper breeder. The papers ain't what makes the dogs.
 

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yeah there are a bunch of kinds of dogs people refer to as pit bulls. The only true American Pit Bull Terrier is usually 40-60lbs. some are as low as 30lbs but not many are higher. American Staffordshire terriers run a few more lbs. American Bully's can hit over 100lbs. They are all referred to as Pit Bulls, but only one is the actual APBT. Weight and the look of the dog defines it as its breed, but if you dog does not have papers saying what bloodlines you have, you can never know if you have a true American Pit Bull or a American Staffordshire, or a Bully or a mix of them a few lines. I used to think AST and APBT were like a yellow lab and a black lab, same dog different colors. That's not the case. They were bred for very different things and have since evolved into their own breed.

As far as socialization, you don't need to be socialized (with other animals) when you have been bred to go after other dogs or abused and not sure what the situation was in their past, its in their genes. NEVER trust a bull dog not to fight. As far as the post saying the one that weights more is a red nose, well that's just a color and is not a bloodline. She could have a black nose or a yellow nose and still have been bred generations back to fight. Keep doing what you are doing never leaving them alone. take them on walks together and let them be around new things while in a controlled leashed environment, keeping in mind you may have to live a life crating and rotating them and never ever have them off leash together again. There are lots of people who live this life and I am sure one of them will chime in at some point.

and your pups are super cute :)
Your post is a little miss leading. What you should of said is; "a well conditioned true APBT is usually 40 to 60 lbs." Many of the best examples of "true" APBT's on the chain, weighed 65 to 80 lbs. Ex; "Mayday, Macho Buck, Gunner, even Chinaman. Condition weight is far different than chain weight.
And to the OP, in my opinion, you can NEVER trust them not to fight again.
You can not train it out of them, and one day a lot of damage may be done before you can stop them. Trust me, I have been there! If it is to much trouble keeping them away from each other. You may want to find one of them a new home, JMO.
 

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Ok, to keep it simple, no, not every red nose dog is an OFRN dog. But to be classified as an OFRN dog, yes, it must have a red nose. Heck, Tudor's Dibo was full of red nose dogs, but he was black nose! The only way to know your dog is an authentic OFRN dog is to get it from a known breeder, with the peds to prove it, and I'm not talking a paper breeder. The papers ain't what makes the dogs.
true true, that's what I thought, I had seen some in the past who were not, thanks for the examples.
 

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I am confused as to why a red nose dog would be more prone to fighting...Am I missing something here?
I don't believe that a dog's nose color has nothing to do with it. If someone said it did I would ignore that. I think they were talking about OFRN dog's I don't think it had anything to do with the dog's color specifically.
 

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I am confused as to why a red nose dog would be more prone to fighting...Am I missing something here?
yeah he said it was prone to being bigger, nothing about fighting...
 
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