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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anybody who works in animal rescue or animal control will learn at some point about the "mystery window", that time when you first meet the dog and where the dog seems to be good. The problem with this window is that it can be minutes, hours, days... And sadly this window closes and you end up with a dog who may have serious issues.
I deal with this all the time but yesterday i had one of the worst encounters of it.
We recieved a call of a dog that was either dying or dead at a local park. Our ACO (animal control officer) goes out and picks up a dog who is super dehydrated and nearly starved, pit mix of course. the dog was only 15 yards from the river. the ACO took her to a local vet where she recieved some food and IV fluids as well as a test for salmon poisoning and heartworm, both negative. While there, the ACO called me to see if we would foster this dog, we have seen this behavior before from dogs that were dumped, they tend to just be so depressed from being dumped they will not eat or drink so putting her in the shelter would be almost the same, of course i agreed.
This sweet seeming girl chilled up front in the office with me all day until it was time to go home. She loved her toys and even played a little fetch in the office with me and a volunteer. Then i took her home....
She was so excited to see my kids, and at first seemed to ignore our dogs. Then she suddenly noticed our dogs on the other side of the sliding glass door... she was trying to chew through the glass to get to our dogs. okay well little red flag. then she met jackie, who was on her back before she even was close to this dog, and this nearly emaciated dog was ready to tear her throat out, thank goodness for good reflexes. I never even attempted to let her meet Boomer.
With a heavy heart i loaded her back up and returned to the shelter, there was no way this was gonna work. I was near to tears the entire way.

Then i went into work at the shelter this morning...She growled at everyone and then even me... I couldn't even get close to her, the "window" was gone.This poor girl is beyond repair.But She will stick with me forever.



 

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ugh how heart breaking. But maybe it was meant to be that she wasnt with you and around your kids longer. who knows what is going on with her there may be other things that are just coming to surface and with her growling at people I couldnt have that around my kids either. Must be hard thinking you are turning her into such a sad place but it just leaves a spot open for one who will be a good match and one that is adoptable later on.
When we got Rocky back from the people who stole him i was so excited to see him home and walked around the corner and he growled at me , a dog who was my buddy and did nothing but love on me and my kids growled at me. So I know how your feeling, Broke my heart too. Atleast you tried and gave her a chance.
 

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Oh that pitiful face :(
It's always the ones you can't help that haunt you. At least you made the effort for her.
 

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English Dogge Yard
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So.. You in essence, brought her back for doing what a Bulldog does? Were you expecting them to all get along? In the beginning it sounded like it would turn out that the dog would growl at your kids, the dog on dog though.. Threw me off.. Unless i'm just not understanding your post correctly.

Always expect a Bulldog to fight... As true as it is old..
 

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Gotta Love Them Red Dogs!
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So.. You in essence, brought her back for doing what a Bulldog does? Were you expecting them to all get along? In the beginning it sounded like it would turn out that the dog would growl at your kids, the dog on dog though.. Threw me off.. Unless i'm just not understanding your post correctly.

Always expect a Bulldog to fight... As true as it is old..
:goodpost:

Exactly and to say "she was beyond repair" from doing what a bulldog was bred for is just bewildering. Ever think maybe she was scared shitless of the situations at hand? You get picked up by people you do not know, stuck with needles, thrown in odd enviorments, and then on top of it all thrown in a kennel. I would grown,too.

Pit Bulls are dog aggressive for the most part and people who say they trust thier "Pit Bull" with other dogs fully is just as dumb as they can come. In is in thier blood, you cannot fight decades of genetics. Can't handle the truth? Don't own the breed.
 

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If she wasnt set up to deal with a DA dog then noone can blame her for returning it. Its a better option then living in a multi dog home with a DA dog and not knowing how to deal with it properly. Although if rescueing this breed you should be prepared for this to pop up.
 

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Gotta Love Them Red Dogs!
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Don't take a "Pit Bull" home if you can't deal with DA.
Simple as that.
The breed is MORE likely than not to be DA.
This is no hidden secret.
 
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English Dogge Yard
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If she wasnt set up to deal with a DA dog then noone can blame her for returning it. Its a better option then living in a multi dog home with a DA dog and not knowing how to deal with it properly. Although if rescueing this breed you should be prepared for this to pop up.
I can see what you are saying but the thing that gets me is she already has at least one Bulldog based on the picture, the post mentioned two so i'm just assuming in that she probably has two.. If not she still has one and if she isn't "set up" emotionally or without proper methods to break up a fight/secure their safety than thats where my issue stems from more so than just the simple fact she rescued an unknown and brought it back.

Rescuing is a noble thing and i can understand if she brought the dog back based on the growling issues since she has kids, when you have kids unless you really have the time devote its usually a bad idea to bring a HA hound of any sorts in the home.. Especially one where you might question the mental state of..

However what i gathered from the post was, she at first was ify based on the growling, decided to take the chance of fostering got home realized it was potentially highly DA and might have some drive to go along with that DA thus deemed the Bulldog as undoable and brought him back... Which goes back to my OP..

If i'm missing something or reading into it wrong than i can apologize however i feel like (at least) i'm reading how it should be read therefore i feel there are bigger issues to address..
 

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The Yard Of Many Colors
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That's what the crate and rotate system is for.. when owning apbts you should know they can never be trusted alone and even in this case together period.. that's just who they are.. some less da than others.. sorry to hear about this poor girl :(
 

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Then i went into work at the shelter this morning...She growled at everyone and then even me... I couldn't even get close to her,
That is the crux of the situation really. The dog aggression is manageable and in many cases, expected. My fosters aren't exposed to my dogs other than very peripherally (foster in crate, resident dogs out loose, they know to ignore. When it is time for foster out, my dogs are put away, foster is on leash, NO negative interaction or posturing at crated resident dogs is permitted)
I have had fosters who were stellar dogs initially, then showed behavior that made them not place-able. Most recently a dog who showed strong, forward fear of children. Something that could have been worked with in an owned dog, but not a problem you can place.
 

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Being a dog rescuer, you might wanna look into the "2 week shutdown." Taking this dog out of a bad situation, and basically introducing her to everyone and everything, and all sorts of environments... was just asking for trouble. You should have isolated her, given her a safe comfy place to stay, and kept her away from your dogs.

Let's look at it from her perspective:
I almost died. Someone saved me. They were nice. Oh, this person is nice too. OK, I like her home and her kids. Oh, WAIT! Dogs? She has dogs?!?! I don't like those. I hate them!
OK... I'm back at the shelter. Lots of dogs. Stress. No one to hold me, tell me it's ok. I don't wanna be here.... No one will save me....

And now she's lashing out because she's stressed and scared. Granted, she may be HA normally, but it could just be stress.
 
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I have to agree with Indie. You chose to bring a sick, malnourished dog into a strange home, strange noises, smells, Yikes animals and kids too. Expecting it to be calm and sedate is not rational. All of the actions could be fear driven. I am not trying to give excuses for the dogs actions. HA and DA could of been a part of this dogs make up and this is why someone abandoned it. But one will never really know. I understand but I would of personally given it more time assuming the conditions the dog may of gone through and how he was feeling. Being prepared with the 2 week shut down and C&R. Giving the dog the opportunity to get healthier before adding additional stimuli into the equation. You had to make the decision you chose was best for your family and this I understand too. I just would of done it a little different.
 

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Gotta Love Them Red Dogs!
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Being a dog rescuer, you might wanna look into the "2 week shutdown." Taking this dog out of a bad situation, and basically introducing her to everyone and everything, and all sorts of environments... was just asking for trouble. You should have isolated her, given her a safe comfy place to stay, and kept her away from your dogs.

Let's look at it from her perspective:
I almost died. Someone saved me. They were nice. Oh, this person is nice too. OK, I like her home and her kids. Oh, WAIT! Dogs? She has dogs?!?! I don't like those. I hate them!
OK... I'm back at the shelter. Lots of dogs. Stress. No one to hold me, tell me it's ok. I don't wanna be here.... No one will save me....

And now she's lashing out because she's stressed and scared. Granted, she may be HA normally, but it could just be stress.
:goodpost:
 

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I'm glad Indie brought that up. It's not at all uncommon for dogs who've been through a lot of stress at the shelter to growl at things that they normally wouldn't. Can't count the amount of dogs I've been asked to take out for such things and they were fine once we got out. One actually was adopted by a old friend, never had a issue and he's had her for quite awhile. She's a awesome dog, was just under a lot of stress. (Also a neglect case, most were)

We also often retest dogs that do bad initially, it's not uncommon for a dog to get tested when they first come in, get "adults only" then after settling in retest to get "8 and up" or such.

Two week shutdown is indeed a life saver.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I understand everyones opinions and realize some will always see things diferently than I do.
Here is the thing. I work for Animal Control, we recieve hundreds of dogs from all sorts of bad situations. I have had the pleasure of fostering many that turned out to be perfectly wonderful. i cannot, knowing how many good dogs may loose their chance, "work" with a dog that was this DA. I do also know how dogs react when in the shelter enviroment and in strange situations/places. I have seen the most frightened, growling mess turn into a wonderful dog in a short time, and maybe this girl will come around. We shall see.
I have one pit bull and one pit bull mix at this time, i previously had two pit bulls and was able to foster just the same.
If the DA was something i felt was fear related and/or managable I never would have returned her to the shelter, that is not an easy thing to do. The point is, is that it was most definitely more than i felt i could safely handle. I know bull dogs and i know they can be and often are DA, to an extent, this was more than i have seen, especially in a dog in this bad of shape.
While in a perfect world we would be able to save them all, at this time that just isn't an option, and we have to make our choices knowing that.
I feel i made the best decision at this time to take this girl back to the shelter. And hey, if i go back tomorrow and she is doing well, maybe i will try again. If not i will recomend euthanasia and hope that her memory will help serve us in our next foster.
 

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Your doing great things helping to save these dogs from the situations bad owners put them in. If anyone should confront you on your reasoning as to why you couldnt keep the dog they should go out and do what you are doing. Its your home and your family and your time you put into them, if it isn't a good fit for any of those then its your choice. I hope things work for this girl but if they don't that isn't your fault or the shelters for that matter its the owner who left he on her own and put her in that situation. Majority of people adopting from a shelter aren't prepared or educated enough in a specific breed to deal or understand DA to begin with so this may very well have been the best choice for all involved. I don't think you have to explain your actions to anyone, good on you for doing all that you do to help these dogs.
 

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In the future, I wouldn't test a dog around other dogs until you've done a two week shutdown.

Plenty of dogs would love to eat other dogs when they're stressed, and some, after short positive exposure are fine. Actually my gal was originally like that, wanted to eat all my dogs at first, but she gets along with my grandmother's Dachshund now. But that was after a lot of positive association building prior to ever allowing a nose-nose intro.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
AngelBaby, Thank you.

For the "two week shutdown", we just don't have those means...The shelter has the 72 hour rule on dogs with no owners. if they are adoptable dogs, they are fine, if they show issues, they often are slated for euthanasia. We do all we can to save what is in our power to, but to hold an animal for two weeks, either in the shelter or in foster care, just isn't a possibility at this time. sadly the shelter is looking at shutting down completely because people don't feel we are worth "paying for". I will definitely be bringing the issue up to our supervisor and may do some more research so that we can present it to our county commisioners to maybe help our funding situation.
 

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Gotta Love Them Red Dogs!
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I understand everyones opinions and realize some will always see things diferently than I do.
Here is the thing. I work for Animal Control, we recieve hundreds of dogs from all sorts of bad situations. I have had the pleasure of fostering many that turned out to be perfectly wonderful. i cannot, knowing how many good dogs may loose their chance, "work" with a dog that was this DA. I do also know how dogs react when in the shelter enviroment and in strange situations/places. I have seen the most frightened, growling mess turn into a wonderful dog in a short time, and maybe this girl will come around. We shall see.
I have one pit bull and one pit bull mix at this time, i previously had two pit bulls and was able to foster just the same.
If the DA was something i felt was fear related and/or managable I never would have returned her to the shelter, that is not an easy thing to do. The point is, is that it was most definitely more than i felt i could safely handle. I know bull dogs and i know they can be and often are DA, to an extent, this was more than i have seen, especially in a dog in this bad of shape.
While in a perfect world we would be able to save them all, at this time that just isn't an option, and we have to make our choices knowing that.
I feel i made the best decision at this time to take this girl back to the shelter. And hey, if i go back tomorrow and she is doing well, maybe i will try again. If not i will recomend euthanasia and hope that her memory will help serve us in our next foster.
So you're gonna recommend euthanasia after only 2 damn days;
pardon me for thinking you are jumping the gun but do you not realize what this dog just went through and you are gonna give her ONLY 2 days to become a perfect role model citizen. THAT IS A JOKE!
DA is not "to an extent" with this breed. DA is a pretty dang common thing and there is no "to an extent." A DA dog is just that no if,and, or but about it.
So let me get this straight you not only expect miracles in 2 days but you are also gonna pretty much tell people she deserves to die?
You, Megz, have no respect from me.

I have worked at a shelter as well, did for 4 years while attending high school. I seen many ups and downs of dogs. I also know that a dog pulled from that tramatic of a situation should be given time to settle and understand. Let someone beat the shit out of you, starve you, and then have a random person take you and slam you into a family reunion. Uncomfortable, Ya I thing so! No, you take stuff slow. This really aggarvates me but for you to say you are going to recomment the dog to be put to sleep just throws me over the edge. Let the power trip go and give the poor dog a chance to settle!
:stick:
 

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I understand everyones opinions and realize some will always see things diferently than I do.
Here is the thing. I work for Animal Control, we recieve hundreds of dogs from all sorts of bad situations. I have had the pleasure of fostering many that turned out to be perfectly wonderful. i cannot, knowing how many good dogs may loose their chance, "work" with a dog that was this DA. I do also know how dogs react when in the shelter enviroment and in strange situations/places. I have seen the most frightened, growling mess turn into a wonderful dog in a short time, and maybe this girl will come around. We shall see.
I have one pit bull and one pit bull mix at this time, i previously had two pit bulls and was able to foster just the same.
If the DA was something i felt was fear related and/or managable I never would have returned her to the shelter, that is not an easy thing to do. The point is, is that it was most definitely more than i felt i could safely handle. I know bull dogs and i know they can be and often are DA, to an extent, this was more than i have seen, especially in a dog in this bad of shape.
While in a perfect world we would be able to save them all, at this time that just isn't an option, and we have to make our choices knowing that.
I feel i made the best decision at this time to take this girl back to the shelter. And hey, if i go back tomorrow and she is doing well, maybe i will try again. If not i will recomend euthanasia and hope that her memory will help serve us in our next foster.
then let someone else get the bulldogs and you can get the others
 
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