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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
ok i have heard an american pitbull terrier can be ukc and akc registered. i also heard staffordshire terreirs can be dual registered with ukc. is this even possible without lying about what breed of dog you have!!?? and if you can register them both under akc and ukc how the hell does that work i don't see why akc and ukc would do such a thing! so what is going on with that i am very confused here!
 

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alot of famous APBT's have been dully regs. with both UKC/AKC

i'm not to sure on how all that works, i'd guess, and JMO, it wouldn't really change anything as far as your peds. go, just changing the name of what 'your' spec. dog is called (ie, APBT, AmStaff, etc.) like i said tho, it's jmo, cuz kolby is regs. thru ADBA. So i've never delt with AKC other than with my labs and heelers.
 

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Its my understanding and don't take it as gospel but
and AKC registered AmStaff can be registered as an American Pitbull Terrier with UKC but a UKC reg APBT cannot be registered as an AmStaff with AKC.

I dunno about ADBA if they take AKC paperwork, they might I don't have any AKC dogs.

Not sure why it all works this way but its does. Its weird.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
well im glad im not the only one confused about this:hammer: does any one else have any suggestions!?
 

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Yes you can register your APBT as an AmStaff with AKC.
AS I understand it historically, way back when the registeries were getting started, the AKC and the UKC were one and the same. The main originators of that young registry had different directions they wanted to go in. So they split.
The AKC did not want to register the pit bull terrier because of the name The fad was to have a unique name to identify clearly the breed and staffordshire terrier was already registered.
At that same time, the UKC was also building its registry and named the dog AMERICAN pit bull terrier. At that time anything named AMERICAN was the cool thing to do. So once the UKC named the APBT, the AKC decided they wanted to register it too but since the UKC had already named the breed , AKC got their feelings hurt because they didn't get to. Now the APBT isn't allowed into the AKC unless you change the breed name to Stafford.
Keep in mind that is what I learned from reading here on the boards. Those of you who know more than I please correct my posting where it needs. Cane? OFK? Ericschevy?
 

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Here's my question though AmStaffs are required to have a Black Nose...

Not all APBT's have black noses, so wouldn't that cause a problem with the APBT being registered as an AmStaff??
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
hmm good point about the nose. what gets me is this must be the main reason why people think american staffordshire terriers and american pit bull terreirs are the saem. correct me if i am wrong i need to brush up on my history some more but didn't the akc and ukc both recognize differences in the two and decided to make them two different breeds or was it because the breed standard was so lose that therer were two different variations the show type and then the working type which made them different breeds which pretty much is the same thing as what i just said. ok now hwere are the poeple who would know how this whole thing works and why its like that?? where is cane the pitbull dictionary!!??
 

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To my understanding both the parents must have an AKC number in order for this to be possible. The AKC is a closed book registry where as the ukc is an open registry book so that is how it is possible for an amstaff to be registered as an apbt. But as far as taking an ukc apbt and registering it as an amstaff with the akc this can only be done if the parents of this dog have akc numbers. this is how I understand it.

And yes I beleive the adba is also an open book registry so the same rules would apply
 

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APBT's are usually more lean, and AmStaffs are usually more stocky..rite? they do have a similar look (IMO) as some of the bully's regs. as ABPT's. but what's the deal with the nose? i've never heard they have dif. noses...
 

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The AmStaff standard requires a black nose. ALL AmStaffs regardless of color will have a black nose, where the ABPT any nose color is accepted :)

And yes they are a little more stocky.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
under the akc american staffordshire terriers and american staffordshire bull terriers are only allowed to have black noses if not then they must be a mixed breed or something.

an american pit bull terrier though can have any color nose take red for example. somep its have pink noses some have red, some have all black, some have white, some have white speckled so on and so forth.
 

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APBT's are usually more lean, and AmStaffs are usually more stocky..rite? they do have a similar look (IMO) as some of the bully's regs. as ABPT's. but what's the deal with the nose? i've never heard they have dif. noses...
Amstaffs can have a blue coat a red coat ect these are all acceptable coat colors but apparently they must have a black nose which is odd because I can't find that info on the AKC website unless I overlooked it reading through the standard ? Anyone else have an written proof that all amtaffs must have black nsoes?
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
hmm i have never seen a red amstaff i probobly have but right now i am thinking about an obvious red coat like some of the dogs at caragan kennels. i think i mean i have seen a red brindle on an amstaff but i thought that might be a disqualification or something i didn't notice the nose though but i cant imagine a dog that is truely red not having a nose to match it.
 

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a akc registered am staff can compete as a pitbull in the ukc show ring and usually win. but a ukc registered pit can't compete as an amstaff. go figure..
 

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from the AKC website

"Head
Medium length, deep through, broad skull, very pronounced cheek muscles, distinct stop; and ears are set high. Ears - Cropped or uncropped, the latter preferred. Uncropped ears should be short and held rose or half prick. Full drop to be penalized. Eyes - Dark and round, low down in skull and set far apart. No pink eyelids. Muzzle - Medium length, rounded on upper side to fall away abruptly below eyes. Jaws well defined. Underjaw to be strong and have biting power. Lips close and even, no looseness. Upper teeth to meet tightly outside lower teeth in front. Nose definitely black."

American Kennel Club - American Staffordshire Terrier
 

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Oh here is something I found

Similarities to Other Bull Terriers
The American Staffordshire Terrier and the American Pit Bull Terrier are closely related breeds, sharing a common ancestry as recently as the early 1900s. It is still common practice for dogs to be dual registered (registered as an American Staffordshire Terrier with one dog breed registry, and as an American PitBull Terrier with another.)

The main physical difference between the breeds is that the American Staffordshire Terrier is not permitted to have red (”Dudley”) nose leather, whereas American Pitbull Terriers may have either red or black nose leather. The American Staffordshire Terrier is also often of larger bone structure, head size and weight than their American Pit Bull Terrier cousins.

Because of the physical similarities, a pedigree is the only reliable way to distinguish between dogs from these two breeds. Even experienced AKC judges can find it hard to distinguish between dogs from these two breeds merely on the basis of the small physical differences.

In terms of temperament, the American Staffordshire Terrier is generally accepted to be less tenacious and less dog aggressive (less “game”) than the American Pitbull Terrier. However this distinction is merely a matter of degree, and both breeds exhibit dogs at either end of the temperament spectrum.

The American Staffordshire Terrier is a much larger and heavier dog than the english Staffordshire Bull Terrier, to which it is also closely related.



And here is the chart color for the amstaff off the akc's website

Colors and Markings

American Staffordshire Terrier

Below is a list of the colors and markings available for this breed. Please refer to the breed standard for descriptions and the difference in types.

Description: The name of the color and/or markings.

Type: Standard or alternate. This is the classification of the color for show purposes. Please refer to the breed standard for specifics regarding this breed.

Code: This is the code entered on an application for registration of a dog.

Colors

Description Type Code

Black S 007
Black Brindle S 279
Blue S 037
Blue Brindle S 056
Blue Fawn S 036
Blue Fawn Brindle S 434
Brown S 061
Brown Brindle S 065
Fawn S 082
Fawn Brindle S 088
Fawn Sable S 338
Liver S 123
Liver Brindle S 332
Red S 140
Red Brindle S 148
Red Sable S 155
Seal Brown S 433
White S 199

Markings

Description Type Code

Black Mask S 004
Blue Mask S 006
Brindle Points S 046
Patched S 045
Spotted S 021
Spotted Or Patched S 106
Tan Points S 029
White Markings S 014
White Mask S 015
 

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a akc registered am staff can compete as a pitbull in the ukc show ring and usually win. but a ukc registered pit can't compete as an amstaff. go figure..
That's because the UKC is an open book registry the Akc is a closed book registry my guess would be to break off the fighting image that is associated with the apbt. So that is why you cannot take a ukc apbt without the parents having akc numbers and register it with the akc as an amstaff
 

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from the AKC website

"Head
Medium length, deep through, broad skull, very pronounced cheek muscles, distinct stop; and ears are set high. Ears - Cropped or uncropped, the latter preferred. Uncropped ears should be short and held rose or half prick. Full drop to be penalized. Eyes - Dark and round, low down in skull and set far apart. No pink eyelids. Muzzle - Medium length, rounded on upper side to fall away abruptly below eyes. Jaws well defined. Underjaw to be strong and have biting power. Lips close and even, no looseness. Upper teeth to meet tightly outside lower teeth in front. Nose definitely black."

American Kennel Club - American Staffordshire Terrier
Thanks BBB yup I overlooked it the very last words lmfao:hammer:
 

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Also wanted to add for those who are not aware. Genetically a blue and or blue fawn APBT or AmStaff can not have a black nose. They may have a well pigmented nose and it may be dark but it is still BLUE. Some AmStaff judges do not like to put up blue or blue fawn dogs because of that part of the AmStaff standard. Ironically there are TONS of blue and blue fawn AKC CHs.

I honestly feel the nose thing was meant to keep red nose dogs out from everything I've read.

Since some info is right and others not, I'll quickly recap,

Today to be registered as an AmStaff the parents must be reg. as AmStaffs.
The only time it was different is when AKC first opened up their registry to the APBT under the Alias LOL AmStaff. When the stud books closed they also created a smaller gene pool. By having a different standard and tighter gene pool the dogs evolved differently in many lines even though nothing new was added to make the AmStaff. Some bloodlines still stay more towards the APBT standard than others though.

Both ADBA and UKC will reg AKC AmStaffs as APBTs, but not visa versa.

http://www.apbtconformation.com/standardcomparison.htm

Hope that helps

I am pretty sure this topic has been covered a bunch of times on other threads, but I might be thinking of another forum.
 

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The AmStaff standard requires a black nose. ALL AmStaffs regardless of color will have a black nose, where the ABPT any nose color is accepted :)

And yes they are a little more stocky.
i didn't know about the noses, but then again, i've never really paid attention to it, i am now! umm...
 
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