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Are you talking titled dogs or winners? Because Lelu's father was a winner and many dogs right close up. If you were it the know, you know more of what you post about.
BTW every inbred/family bred dog are winners or they wouldn't be bred.
Reported titles nowadays are fine for fools.
 

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Well I'll be damn. Hmm, I guess what I saw with Lil Rigger, Polly, Red Devil, Steel, Roz, etc. was just my imagination. And if that information isn't on Feds Online then what I know must not be so! Wow I never knew there was so much personal information out there on the Internet as gospel.
 

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K9 Pshrynk & Conciliare~
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:rofl: :p
Im pretty aware that the only dogs worth breeding for so long were CH(5Xw's+) or proven 2xw's ... if your breeding APBTs IMO they have to come from proven stock, JMO and other than private peded dogs, What Im saying is that only those two groups of dogs, bred tight bred right.. produce a winning dog out of dogs NOT proven, and can do so consistantly. What I meant by this statement is that only those dogs are consistant in producing game bred dog gene without consistantly being tested, THE MEN KNOW what they got without the roll, been in it so long they know what to look for. JMO and anyone with good sense and time experienced can make such assessments and maintain good Ch blood. What your saying is neither here nore there, because if you think there are NO norrod dogs without proven dogs in immediate 4 and fading out or obsolete between 4-7, then you obviously know more than the APBT online database and paper peds I've seen in the late 90's before everything went online. I wasn't knocking his dogs, they are my favs next to a pure Jocko dog.. BUT there is a big difference is thinking that there are NO, and NOT EVER SEEING ANY..(which is what you said).
I dont care about the paper titles, as much as the w's and all, I've been looking for a norrod dog off of 2 proven parents, getting hard to find of pure NORROD, can find dogs that have proven sire or dam current dogs, but nothing of straight proven stock or with proven parents. If you could read between the lines I was promoting the two different stock Norrod and Colby to each his own and each has GREAT PET QUALITY DOGS THAT PRODUCE WINNERS AND CAN BE WINNERS AS WELL.. So many great game blood has gone just to hot and wirey, not good pets.. JMO a good [] dog or game dog should be both.. JMO
To me I use to promote Colby or OFRN to a novice, not anymore I don't promote buying an APBT to any novice, I promote the pound and rescues as this point and keep the game dog world to us game dog peeps, but norrod and colby dogs are consistant in proving both at the same time, the way it should be.. Not a hot dog thats not a good dog around kids, that BS breedin JMO They should be the complete package, which is why I call Jocko/redboy and chinaman a fad, ppl quit paying attention to good ethics and just started stacking peds.. JMO again and pure Gospel :p LOL

I got you Tx, I know what your saying.. But You asked and I provided.. not a empty 7 but an empty 4.. (again w's not show ch) I will PM you or post the 7 when I find it, but its 2 and almost dark gotta get back out with my dogs, and kick it with my kids.. Have a good1.
 

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I would bet the Norrod dogs are proven out. You may never see many "W"s in the current peds but with the years and care they have in these dogs I'm sure all parents are proven. I always thought it was understood by everyone that if you purchased a dog off of Ironline that it was from tested parents.
 

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Bang on the money Rob, and the truth is anyone who is stupid enough to post peds with w or game on the ped regardless of if they in are a place where it is legal or not is asking for trouble, there are still plenty of dogmen around in those countries where its against the law USA, even down here, and those people are realy just stupid to "Brag" about their dogs matching prowess in such a time.
The truth is if you know who and where to ask im sure you can find out what the dogs done.
 

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Mostly everything nowadays is hand written if your matching dogs in the present day and time your not registering them with feds online or with any registry unless your a fool. Paper Trails are what lands folks in jail. Anyone who is deep in the game is keeping everything hand written.
 

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K9 Pshrynk & Conciliare~
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^^^ anyone who is proud to own a genuine piece of American history is asking for trouble??? is what your saying to me.. ... .

These dogs legacy are greater than any man in America, JMO game is game and has been American and unchanged for how long now.. Thanks Junkyard for catchin that, this hamster wheel called my brain spins so fast my fingers are consistantly studdering, most deff should have been a 3 and a 5, not only studdern but dislexic as well.. LOL MY BAD I FGD THAT UP...
If anything would cause any trouble it would be statements like
I would bet the Norrod dogs are proven out. You may never see many "W"s in the current peds but with the years and care they have in these dogs I'm sure all parents are proven. I always thought it was understood by everyone that if you purchased a dog off of Ironline that it was from tested parents.
Thats the kinda thing that should go without being said, if it goes without being said ;)

The way I look at it, if you don't have nothing to hide~ if so private peds..
If the W's are gathered outside the country, thats like drinking in the air over the U.S. when your 18.. Same concept, should be disregarded in the same context; that simple truth of law. THIS IS NOT A SOCIALIST NATION!!! freedom of speech.. wheeewwhhooooo! God Bless the U.S.
As a vet tech I have seen bear and cat hounds that have killed one or the other in yard or kennel fights while the owner was just out of reach or at work, those guys don't go up for charges and its the same context, to much nonsense and people need to be educated, people need to know that a proven APBT has a more sound mentality that a show bred or kennel bred dog cannot guarantee cause they aren't ... proven.. APBTs arent proven through fighting; proven through match, equivlent to a sanctioned boxing match in ethics of care and saftey, LOL some of these dogs lasted many more years than professional boxers. Common slang calls it a fight.. Boxing is not fighting is a match the same as the []. Ppl think dogs are forced to lock up, LOL... Some dogs bounce from country to country and come back to the U.S. to only leave the country again.

DID YOU KNOW THEY ARE TRYING TO BAN OUR APBT BOOKS OF HISTORIC [] KNOWLEDGE AND INFORMATION?????? ??? Why would they want to do that?? To create their OWN truth of the APBT and its history in the []. SO ITS IMPORTANT TO SPREAD THE TRUTH!!!!!!

BOTTOM LINE......
The way I was told, Ironline is so tight no matter what pup you pick you'll get a dog that will past the test thus Ironline the blood itself passes the test, LOL. Where did you read that I was dissing this line?? Most ppl ARE washing this stuff out not knowing how to pick the right dog after the mix, no consistancy, although some REAL good dogs pop up here and there.. NORROD and COLBY know these dogs, their dogs are of them and IMO know what they got without the roll.. Bred tight and bred right even the crossouts rock it out. "It aint braggin mthr4kr; if you back it up"(KidRk)
 

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I wasn't dissing anyone except for ppl who practice unethical breeding practices with great bloodlines; only those two line out of the most popular in the US, produce pets and game quality in the same stock consistantly.. I did make a typo.. So thanks for clearing that up..

In such a time??? When its dark what do you do?? Turn on the Light ;)
 

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FH I don't know if that first ? was directed to me or not but I am saying that anyone who is deeply involved in dog fighting is not going to be registering dogs or leaving any paper trails behind them they will keep everything hand written on a napkin LOL anything but putting it up online. So sometimes match information on a dog may not be available unless you have connections with the inner circles of those who are keeping hand written pedigree's. It's well known that the feds are tracking people down from Peds online. It's not safe these days to really register your dogs not dogs bred like ours because of the witch hunts. You don't have to be a dog fighter to be accused or labeled one all you have to do is own a bulldog.
 

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NO sadie, I was responding to JunkY, just got long winded.. so manythings intertwined..
VERY WELL SAID..
I totally get what your saying, KG of ADBA taught me that when I got my dog from Holts Jocko who was taken from ADBA and put into private peds. Where I line bred all my stock from for years.. Turk is the product and all thats left.

I had to beat a badrep in a courtcase in Ok, it was a kennel fight while I was at work and they tried to say I was DF, when I came home while they cops where in my drive.. LOL DUUUMMMBAZZZZES, then the ACO shows up drunk and KNOWS me because IM THE GUY WHO PUTS DOWN THE POUND ANIMALS(well was then) and she put on my citation I was an 18 yr old female hispanic. I got my dog back, except the one that done the most damage, and the SPCA manager gave me the clear but the Judge said NOPE, so I got to go with the loss of my boudreaux dog and the court fee..

So I feel ya.. For me the only way is to educate everyone who thinks they know; ignorance is the majority and they do what they are told.
 

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i agree

Where do you see a lot of camelot? You have got to be kidding me. :confused: As for wanting to know more about the Lar-San line, there is no reason for this person to ask "Lindsey", when I know my dogs' lineage front and backward. If he is interested in the litter, he should be asking ME, not go on a board where the majority of members own non-papered rescues and/or do not know how to read or understand pedigrees.

FYI, Camelot is absolutely not a UKC show line. (Now that's funny. lololololol)
for 1 camelot is not a ukc show dog, ppl probably went on the cam web site and saw that he ukc reg his dogs and went with that.all u gotta do is a little research and know how to read a pedigree.and that'll speak for itself
 

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^^^ anyone who is proud to own a genuine piece of American history is asking for trouble??? is what your saying to me.. ... .

These dogs legacy are greater than any man in America, JMO game is game and has been American and unchanged for how long now.. Thanks Junkyard for catchin that, this hamster wheel called my brain spins so fast my fingers are consistantly studdering, most deff should have been a 3 and a 5, not only studdern but dislexic as well.. LOL MY BAD I FGD THAT UP...
If anything would cause any trouble it would be statements like Thats the kinda thing that should go without being said, if it goes without being said ;)

The way I look at it, if you don't have nothing to hide~ if so private peds..
If the W's are gathered outside the country, thats like drinking in the air over the U.S. when your 18.. Same concept, should be disregarded in the same context; that simple truth of law. THIS IS NOT A SOCIALIST NATION!!! freedom of speech.. wheeewwhhooooo! God Bless the U.S.
As a vet tech I have seen bear and cat hounds that have killed one or the other in yard or kennel fights while the owner was just out of reach or at work, those guys don't go up for charges and its the same context, to much nonsense and people need to be educated, people need to know that a proven APBT has a more sound mentality that a show bred or kennel bred dog cannot guarantee cause they aren't ... proven.. APBTs arent proven through fighting; proven through match, equivlent to a sanctioned boxing match in ethics of care and saftey, LOL some of these dogs lasted many more years than professional boxers. Common slang calls it a fight.. Boxing is not fighting is a match the same as the []. Ppl think dogs are forced to lock up, LOL... Some dogs bounce from country to country and come back to the U.S. to only leave the country again.

DID YOU KNOW THEY ARE TRYING TO BAN OUR APBT BOOKS OF HISTORIC [] KNOWLEDGE AND INFORMATION?????? ??? Why would they want to do that?? To create their OWN truth of the APBT and its history in the []. SO ITS IMPORTANT TO SPREAD THE TRUTH!!!!!!

BOTTOM LINE......
The way I was told, Ironline is so tight no matter what pup you pick you'll get a dog that will past the test thus Ironline the blood itself passes the test, LOL. Where did you read that I was dissing this line?? Most ppl ARE washing this stuff out not knowing how to pick the right dog after the mix, no consistancy, although some REAL good dogs pop up here and there.. NORROD and COLBY know these dogs, their dogs are of them and IMO know what they got without the roll.. Bred tight and bred right even the crossouts rock it out. "It aint braggin mthr4kr; if you back it up"(KidRk)
FH, you know I currently own a Norrod pup, so when the discussion of this bloodline comes up my ears perk up. I know, and have known, that you are an admirer of the blood that flows thru Ironline, so I've never thought that you had anything but good comments about this line. IMO it's all good;) I wouldn't give up my pup for all the tea in China. Keep on posting with your plethora of knowledge my friend and.....keep on bulldoggin'! Oh, and you spelled motherf*cker wrong LOL!!
 

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for 1 camelot is not a ukc show dog, ppl probably went on the cam web site and saw that he ukc reg his dogs and went with that.all u gotta do is a little research and know how to read a pedigree.and that'll speak for itself
Sorry but Camelot bred dogs are not ADBA standard dogs so what does that make them? They are UKC show dogs (some of them) with working potential.Or they fall into the Bully (ABKC) standards which is what most of them today are anyway. They are far from APBT's I don't care what they were in the beginning all bullies stem from game dogs generations back it's what they are now and what direction they were taken that matters to me.
 

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Swoggers Debate...what makes a SOLID Pit?

I know these posts are old, but I have to comment after reading some of these game dog fanatics and Kim Swoggers tit for tat posts. You game dog & [pure] bloodline obsessed pitbull junkies need to chill out. Every opinion here is subjective, and what you might call a good dog someone else might say they're shit. Everyone just needs to chill out and debate, if you will, like mature adults. Personally, Kim Swogger has produced some very good dogs, and I even know of some breeders using them in their foundation stock to bring in that little extra bone and the red coats (line breeding for too long causes the animals to shrink in size overtime...if you didn't know), and some dogs with heavy swogger influence are ADBA champions, accomplished hog catchers and are killing it in sporting competetion such as as weight pull, tread mill, Iron Dog, and PSA. My pup on the sire's side is a mixture of Yellow Bolio-Tombstone, Red-Boy Jocko with some Eli-Carver and on the dam's side heavy Greco-Castillo, Swoggers and OFRN, and he's a working BEAST, but also super sweet, affectionate, intelligent and calm inside the home; his temperament is top quality, balanced and stable and he fears NOTHING! One guy on here referred to this as being a scatter bred pitbull lol. Well I think we've learned a lot since bozo made that comment almost 10 yrs ago and any experienced breeder will tell you that if you keep line breeding or worse in-breeding game pitbulls beyond 6 or 7 generations without re-introducing fresh new lines with stable temperaments, you'll produce dogs so out of control and driven for one purpose that they have to be tethered their whole life...which is cruel. The key to producing quality dogs in this day and age is to strike a healthy balance of civilized pet who can still turn it on at the appropriate time. If your dog doesn't have that on/off switch, willingness to please and responsivness to it's master - that's a shit dog! And I don't care if it's a Macho Buck or Chinaman or Croata dog. Everyone here is a Nancy know-it-all on the subject. Give it a rest! We learn more when we listen.
 

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Swoggers Debate...what makes a SOLID Pit?

I know these posts are old, but I have to comment after reading some of these game dog fanatics and Kim Swoggers tit for tat posts. You game dog & [pure] bloodline obsessed pitbull junkies need to chill out. Every opinion here is subjective, and what you might call a good dog someone else might say they're shit. Everyone just needs to chill out and debate, if you will, like mature adults. Personally, Kim Swogger has produced some very good dogs, and I even know of some breeders using them in their foundation stock to bring in that little extra bone and the red coats (line breeding for too long causes the animals to shrink in size overtime...if you didn't know), and some dogs with heavy swogger influence are ADBA champions, accomplished hog catchers and are killing it in sporting competetion such as as weight pull, tread mill, Iron Dog, and PSA. My pup on the sire's side is a mixture of Yellow Bolio-Tombstone, Red-Boy Jocko with some Eli-Carver and on the dam's side heavy Greco-Castillo, Swoggers and OFRN, and he's a working BEAST, but also super sweet, affectionate, intelligent and calm inside the home; his temperament is top quality, balanced and stable and he fears NOTHING! One guy on here referred to this as being a scatter bred pitbull lol. Well I think we've learned a lot since bozo made that comment almost 10 yrs ago and any experienced breeder will tell you that if you keep line breeding or worse in-breeding game pitbulls beyond 6 or 7 generations without re-introducing fresh new lines with stable temperaments, you'll produce dogs so out of control and driven for one purpose that they have to be tethered their whole life...which is cruel. The key to producing quality dogs in this day and age is to strike a healthy balance of civilized pet who can still turn it on at the appropriate time. If your dog doesn't have that on/off switch, willingness to please and responsivness to it's master - that's a shit dog! And I don't care if it's a Macho Buck or Chinaman or Croata dog. Everyone here is a Nancy know-it-all on the subject. Give it a rest! We learn more when we listen.
I know this is old but pretty much this. Not to mention this blood is behind the most titled working APBT of all time. I am no dog sport person (would like to be though), just love APBTs and enjoy being active and having fun with my dogs. My boy Lemmy who is almost 10 now is a Swogger dog out of her dogs Eenie and Lil Ruben. He has been an absolute pleasure to own. Excellent temperament, structure, and intelligence. He was so easy to train. Very driven but most importantly has SELF CONTROL. If we are playing flirt pole in the yard he will give up the tug and wait patiently on my command before I release it and the game starts again. I was so sad when Kim retired. My boy is from one of her last breedings. When our old rescued lab mix died at 14 last summer I knew I wanted another Swogger dog and went on a hunt. I ended up getting a female pup bases on the reccomemdation of Kim herself. Our new pup Ruby's dam and Lemmy's dam were full sisters. So far so good. She's sweet, very smart, and very driven. Excited to see how she grows up.
 
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