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Discussion Starter #1
What has the breed become? Is it merely a shell of what it once was? I read the posts and I see division between those that wish to argue that the Pit Bull and Am Staff are not the same breed. I see people that say that the Am Staff is a show dog where the Pit is a sporting breed and this somehow defines them as a different breed. Yet my eyes show me something entirely different. Of all the talk that the Pit is sport and the Am Staff is show it all seems to be just talk. From many years of experience in the breed I now see local clubs failing due to lack of participation, fewer sporting opportunities being made available by the clubs barely holding on and where such opportunities do exists less than 1% of owners attend shows and less than 5% of those that attend actually take part in sporting events.

Sure those that go to shows participate in Conformation but where is the value in this event when they have become so politically motivated that often times they do not reflect the quality of the dog being represented but more about who you know? If the Pit Bull is about sport and the Am Staff about show can it not be argued that these glorified politically motivated beauty contests are in fact, when offered by themselves, leading to the demise of the Pit Bull version of the breed if the other 95% of the owners at the shows are not also taking part in some type of sporting event? And what value really is an award in Conformation even when it is won in a non-bias fashion when the dog that wins is really the only dog entered into its Conformation grouping? Should such a dog win simply because it is entered and if so what does this really say about Conformation? As a child I won every race where I was the only one running yet this never made me a pro-athlete nor did it attest to my abilities at running, my conditioning, style, form or technique. Was Colby right when he said that time will erase the breed in terms of ability and that it will at some point just be a shell of what it once was? From all indications this seems to be so.

So whose fault is it that the breed has come to this point? Is it the registries for failing to promote and sanction more events to highlight the skills of the breed? Sure people can argue the point that fighting is not legal and can fall on the tired argument that the only way to really game test is through the fighting pit. Is this not however just a copout or is this reflective of just how little imagination the world and registries have when it comes to testing the drive, determination and don't give up attitude that are really at the heart of the term "game".

Is it the fault of local clubs who have failed to market themselves well enough to pull in more members? Who have failed to offer more opportunities of sporting events despite registries lack of sanctioning these? Who have failed to educate their members in the activities available? Who perpetuate a fear of failure by not embracing more participation through training?

Is it the fault of owners? As a society have we really just become so lazy that the dogs we own are merely just a reflection of ourselves? Has it come to a point where the only satisfaction we can get as owners is by trash talking others who also love the breed. Have we become so divided on things like color, registry affiliation, pedigrees, or the difference between Pits and Am Staffs that we have caused a situation where all feel slighted to some degree and thus few want to participate in activities for fear of judgment?

Now on the other side I see the Am Staff. The supposed show dog and admittedly I do not see many active in this class either but what I do see according to the argument that the Pit is sport and Am Staff is show that the opposite seems to be more the reality. I see champion Am Staffs in Shutzhund, Agility, Weight Pull, Dock Diving and many other sporting events. If these are truly the exceptions then one has to ponder why are the exceptions outshining what is supposed to be the norm for the Pit Bull?

I happen to love the breed regardless of whether you choose to call it a Pit Bull or Am Staff. I have dedicated much of my life to its positive promotion, educating people on the illogical nature of breed specific legislation, helped train in Service Dog work for the breed and supported unity as opposed to divide, which in away sadly seems to be one of the few points, which draws owners together. In my dedication to the breed I have been an active promoter and have expanded my writing and marketing skills into the development of American Super Dog a TV series in the first stages of production.

In wrapping up this post the final and most important questions are where is your role in the breed? Are you going to be the fad owner or does the breed really own you at heart? Do you wish to see the breed in its full glory or is the shell alone good enough? When you talk about the ability is this based on the perception of ability simply because of the name or is it something you can back up with proof?

If your Pit Bull / Am Staff has what it takes to bring substantive honor and true prestige to the name I implore you to help us show this to the world, foster unity instead of divide and to submit evidence of this by uploading your videos for consideration in our TV series to American Super Dog. We are looking for all manner of positive video but especially are encouraging that of a sporting and training nature. If you are a trainer upload a short video on training and let us know and we will also include a free banner for you on the site as a resource for others.
 

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Work them Pet Bulls!
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:goodpost: I came here to learn about the APBT not knowing that I actually have an American bully. I'm still very confused on that whole subject and am just taking it all in to be educated. So where do the bullies fall into the whole apbt/pit bull category? Every time I am approached by a person I am asked if I have a pit bull and when I say American bully I get a funny look by people. I'm just going to sit back and listen and learn to this topic because I'm sure it is going to hit a few nerves :p
 

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The APBT/AmStaff argument has been around most likely since the AmStaff began.

The American Bully is in the American Bully category. If you had a Chesapeake Bay Retriever and someone asked if it was a lab and you told them no it's a Chesapeake Bay Retriever they would give you a funny look too. Just because most people only know like 5 to 10 dog breeds.

I think we just need to stick together as DOG owners and stop trying to compare separate breeds together.

I may upload a video for you after I check out the site.
 

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K9 Pshrynk & Conciliare~
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NO.. well you make a luke warm point; but its luke warm.......

Compare ADBA, UKC, and AKC.. then get back at me.. LOL with what your eyes see. Howard Heinzl said it best ;) As did Louis P. Colby.

function dog vs show dog there is a big difference .. the function dog is proven sound .. the show dog racks up HA bite stats only destroying the name and the REAL dog from which it came =D
 

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Pits Are For Chicks
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function dog vs show dog there is a big difference .. the function dog is proven sound .. the show dog racks up HA bite stats only destroying the name and the REAL dog from which it came =D
No Sorry but thats not how it works LMAO.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
I see we are getting a little off track. Please let us stick to the original intent of the post by addressing issues within it.

Th Am Bully is quasi related in that it is a point of divide. This is due primarily to the name change given to the Pit Bull by the ABKC, who registers all Pits as Am Bully. This is similar to what the AKC did with the Pit Bull by changing its name in their registry to the Am Staff.

Once again I however stress these are points of divide and the point of the post was not to divide but for introspection, a call to action to prove the working ability of the breed (if it still exists) and to determine why it has become what it seems to have become over the past several years.

For people who wish to respond to the post please do so by answering questions from the post. After giving an answer please feel free to elaborate on why you have given the answer you give.

Also if we are going to quote people let us provide sources so these can be verified such as book, page number, etc. If we are going to be stating things as fact let us provide links or book sources and if things are opinions let this be known.
 

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Pits Are For Chicks
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I see we are getting a little off track. Please let us stick to the original intent of the post by addressing issues within it.

Th Am Bully is quasi related in that it is a point of divide. This is due primarily to the name change given to the Pit Bull by the ABKC, who registers all Pits as Am Bully. This is similar to what the AKC did with the Pit Bull by changing its name in their registry to the Am Staff.
People are not required to meet your outline to respond.

You are also wrong here. ABKC does not register Pit Bulls they register American Bullies. These are not Pit Bulls under another name, they are a completely separate breed of dog.
 

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quasi's but.
A pit is a pit,bred pit to be pit.
bully is crossed,mixed and conjured.please,do not compare a dog breed to A pseudo breed of A specific breed.
 

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Bully Enemy #1
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People are not required to meet your outline to respond.

You are also wrong here. ABKC does not register Pit Bulls they register American Bullies. These are not Pit Bulls under another name, they are a completely separate breed of dog.
Actually your somewhat incorrect, ideally I agree with you that only dogs that have American Bully breed type SHOULD be registered with the ABKC at the current time if your dog is registered with the UKC as an APBT it is 'CAN' be registered with the ABKC as an American Bully. It does not have to be inspected by anyone at the ABKC, although I honestly believe it should be.
 

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As funny as these shenanigans have been, I feel compelled to address the original topic. The OP fears that the APBT has become a shell of it's former self and in all honesty, if his/her only experience of them has been at UKC conformation shows and activities like dock diving or agility then maybe I can see their point.

The chances of seeing animals that truly embody the true ancestry of the breed are less likely to be paraded around there than at other less readily accessible events (notable exceptions like Performance Kennels Lisa's dogs spring to mind however). In short, the real APBT is still alive and well, it's just not in the public arena as much.
 

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So here it goes. As i know this will be against popular opinions on this forum. I am going to just say. I see where the op is coming from. They never stated that the Am staff is the better sportsman of the breeds, just that it partakes in more activities. I the apbt is so superior to the amstaff why do they sit one the side lines.

I have said this before. IMPO the decline of the true APBT is most likely not going to come from show lines taking over and contaminating the breed. But from the die hard old style thinking of dogmen that will have nothing to do with people. I understand that the dog is not the breed for every one, but the people that have the truest dog out there should welcome people who want to learn and be active with these dogs. not just other people who will hide in the dark and hide their dogs. How is any one out there going to know how amazing the APBT is if they never see them. I have been in the breed for a little while and have been talking to a great supporters of our breed, and i still feel like man what do you have to do to get some of these people to realize I just want to know what they know and see the great dogs they have seen. So why not be more active as breed remodels?

That is my take on what the Op was asking.
 

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GYPSY PAVING
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QUOTE=aimee235;405285]The APBT/AmStaff argument has been around most likely since the AmStaff began.

The American Bully is in the American Bully category. If you had a Chesapeake Bay Retriever and someone asked if it was a lab and you told them no it's a Chesapeake Bay Retriever they would give you a funny look too. Just because most people only know like 5 to 10 dog breeds.

I think we just need to stick together as DOG owners and stop trying to compare separate breeds together.

I may upload a video for you after I check out the site.[/QUOTE]

:goodpost:
 

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GYPSY PAVING
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Actually your somewhat incorrect, ideally I agree with you that only dogs that have American Bully breed type SHOULD be registered with the ABKC at the current time if your dog is registered with the UKC as an APBT it is 'CAN' be registered with the ABKC as an American Bully. It does not have to be inspected by anyone at the ABKC, although I honestly believe it should be.
Correct, I Just Inquired about all of this having a UKC Registered A-Pitbull that is a Razor's Edge/ Gotti/Watchdog/Greyline.. HAHAHAHAHA :roll:
 

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K9 Pshrynk & Conciliare~
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So here it goes. As i know this will be against popular opinions on this forum. I am going to just say. I see where the op is coming from. They never stated that the Am staff is the better sportsman of the breeds, just that it partakes in more activities. I the apbt is so superior to the amstaff why do they sit one the side lines.

I have said this before. IMPO the decline of the true APBT is most likely not going to come from show lines taking over and contaminating the breed. But from the die hard old style thinking of dogmen that will have nothing to do with people. I understand that the dog is not the breed for every one, but the people that have the truest dog out there should welcome people who want to learn and be active with these dogs. not just other people who will hide in the dark and hide their dogs. How is any one out there going to know how amazing the APBT is if they never see them. I have been in the breed for a little while and have been talking to a great supporters of our breed, and i still feel like man what do you have to do to get some of these people to realize I just want to know what they know and see the great dogs they have seen. So why not be more active as breed remodels?

That is my take on what the Op was asking.
:goodpost: I used to be just like that, for the most part... keeping my stock to myself and although I still will practice similar ethics, wont be so hermit like.. LOL some just not so much :pup:
 

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Pits Are For Chicks
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Actually your somewhat incorrect, ideally I agree with you that only dogs that have American Bully breed type SHOULD be registered with the ABKC at the current time if your dog is registered with the UKC as an APBT it is 'CAN' be registered with the ABKC as an American Bully. It does not have to be inspected by anyone at the ABKC, although I honestly believe it should be.
They are still not registering pitbulls. They are registering American Bullies under the name they belong under as the breed they are.

They are not APBT in the UKC and then becoming a different breed when registered to the ABKC. They are American Bullies wrongly registered as APBT getting registered in the ABKC as the breed they are. Once the split is final I am sure that will stop.
 
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They are still not registering pitbulls. They are registering American Bullies under the name they belong under as the breed they are.

They are not APBT in the UKC and then becoming a different breed when registered to the ABKC. They are American Bullies wrongly registered as APBT getting registered in the ABKC as the breed they are. Once the split is final I am sure that will stop.
:goodpost:
 

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Bully Enemy #1
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They are still not registering pitbulls. They are registering American Bullies under the name they belong under as the breed they are.

They are not APBT in the UKC and then becoming a different breed when registered to the ABKC. They are American Bullies wrongly registered as APBT getting registered in the ABKC as the breed they are. Once the split is final I am sure that will stop.
That's not totally true, because ANY UKC registered APBT can be registered with the ABKC as an American Bully. NOT just AmBully bloodline dogs. I think that it is totally wrong because not every dog from the UKC is an American Bully, but on the flipside of the coin not every Razors Edge or Gottiline dog is bred to be an American Bully. I agree that once they close the open registration period and it takes the inspection proccess to be recognized it will make everything easier.
 
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