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Discussion Starter #1
the bragging rights to famous bulldogs of the past? I know I won't be able to articulate this correctly, but what I'm saying is at what point is claiming my pup is ie. Redboy, Eli, Gator, etc. starting to reach a bit? After the 4th gen.? Does there have to be at least more than one mention of this famous bulldog in the peds? I would think so. I mean most of these famous bulldogs have been dead for quite some time now. All of our pups trace back to someone famous, but that shouldn't qualify them as such, especially when the percentage of lineage is low to begin with. Saying that your pup is from the same "family" I understand, when the breedings are tighter and the proof is there. Just curious:)
 

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According to the ADBA:
A bloodline can be based on a breeder, such as in the example of Howard Heinzl, or it can also be based on an individual stud dog or brood bitch. In this case, it is usually a prominent dog that genetically throws such quality, that a high percentage of its offspring all breed true for this quality. An example of this is Crenshaw's (Jerry's) Champion Honeybunch. Honeybunch was a bitch from the Carver and Boudreaux bloodline which genetically possessed such quality that, when bred to five different stud dogs, produced top dogs from every litter. There was no wrong way to breed this bitch. She produced quality from all five breeders. One of her sons, Crenshaw's Champion Jeep, is given credit in some circles for being one of the greatest producing studs of modern APBT history, You hear of fanciers, that credit Jeep with establishing a distinct "bloodline" of his own. We can argue that, Jeep is really a dog from the Honeybunch line or 25% Carver, 25% Boudreaux, 50% Loposay cross, depending on how far back in his pedigree you want to go or to whom you want to give the credit.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Nice post mama! I'm not sure I'm getting the answer I'm looking for. I guess I'm just wondering when it becomes silly to say "our pup is Jeep/Redboy ie." when A) it is so far back in the peds and B) may only be present once or so on one side. I mean there has to be a statute of limitations in time here, right? Not to mention the dilution process that accrues over the years. How long can you "borrow" famous blood in your pup before it becomes folly to say so, even if there is some existence of it?
 

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LOL Yes, I totally misinterpreted your post and I am not sure about the statute of limitations so to speak, but I think it is an excellent question. My two posts have nothing to do with what you asked so disregard. lmmfao Sorry, it is early!! I'll leave the one post from the ADBA.
 

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How do you know what bloodlines your dog has? Is it something you can only know forsure if you have papers? I've tried to read some on the bloodlines discussions but that stuff is already so over my head lol
I'm really just wondering haha I'm not even sure Loki's full pit...
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Nothing to apologize about mama:) I'm appreciative of all your help! I just see it mentioned on here and in magazines that a pup, or breeding, is from...insert a famous bulldog here...and you don't even see said bulldog in the ped, you know? I liken it to me claiming that since Abe Lincoln is in my heritage, I am Abe Lincoln-like (not a descendant of Abe BTW LOL!). The relevance becomes very irrelevant. To me, to say that this "famous bulldog" is present in a pup's background is OK (even then, it seems as though an accepted percentage should exist), but to advertise as if the pup is a direct result of this "famous bulldog" is misleading at best.
P.S. I just figured out what CMTFU means Lauren, and now you have CMTFU!!!
 

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How do you know what bloodlines your dog has? Is it something you can only know forsure if you have papers? I've tried to read some on the bloodlines discussions but that stuff is already so over my head lol
I'm really just wondering haha I'm not even sure Loki's full pit...
Without papers youre guess is as good as mine.:roll:
 

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Discussion Starter #8
How do you know what bloodlines your dog has? Is it something you can only know forsure if you have papers? I've tried to read some on the bloodlines discussions but that stuff is already so over my head lol
I'm really just wondering haha I'm not even sure Loki's full pit...
Loke, yes, having the proper paperwork is the only way to navigate your way thru your pup's lineage/bloodline:) And even then, some paperwork has been falsified in the past, and present. The same can be said for online peds. However, when you have the paperwork, you have a point of beginning at least. Word of mouth is just that, unless your circle of friends include Colby, Boudreaux, Hammonds, etc. LOL!!!
 

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Nothing to apologize about mama:) I'm appreciative of all your help! I just see it mentioned on here and in magazines that a pup, or breeding, is from...insert a famous bulldog here...and you don't even see said bulldog in the ped, you know? I liken it to me claiming that since Abe Lincoln is in my heritage, I am Abe Lincoln-like (not a descendant of Abe BTW LOL!). The relevance becomes very irrelevant. To me, to say that this "famous bulldog" is present in a pup's background is OK (even then, it seems as though an accepted percentage should exist), but to advertise as if the pup is a direct result of this "famous bulldog" is misleading at best.
P.S. I just figured out what CMTFU means Lauren, and now you have CMTFU!!!
Interesting question and I would also like to know the answer to this. Anyone?

lol Christian you were pondering that acronym for a hot minute. LMBFWGBO ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
NYJSOL = Now you're just showing off, Lauren;) What am I going to do with you young'ens?
 

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St Francis.. GREAT QUESTIONS!!!

JMO ..

Mayday is Jocko/redboy/bolio... Yet tant considered him a tant dog.. however in the world today unless you get a stud from Maday yourself you are JMO getting a Mayday dog not a Tants/Bolio dog. Its just as she said depending on ie:breeder, depends on "bloodline" Some take Maday to more tants, some take it to bolio some just play around with the lines of Jocko/Redboy/Bolio .. funny You can find pure Jocko dogs in asian islands Japan, Phillipines, etc.. but not to many here in the States, cause they're HOT ..LOL JMO hahaha but people call the lines here Jocko/redboy and redboy/jocko funny thing is not many dogs are out there without either or they do come in heavy or light for the most part however they are some pure Redboy just like the rare pure Jocko. What we have now is a mass whirlwind of STP type copycats, and Maday copy cats, People stacking Jocko/Redboy/Bolio together without honoring the breeding that made the great dogs like Mayday and Tants Yellow which those are the breeding that should be reproduced to continue those type bred dogs.. If you have a dog that has Ch Chavis Jocko in it more times than any other then you have a Jocko dog, same as if it says Mayday more than others etc.. etc... pure Mayday would be pure Jocko/Redboy/bolio; so some would say that this is the purest strain of those 3 dogs you can get, take hammonds he has the purest strain of Alligator from Eli, and thus the most untouched strain of Eli because his scientific type mind and breeding program. We know this because Wildside used Hammonds ALOT, hard.. hard mouthed bulldogs is why, just like Alligator the real Gator., however rufus is the closest so they would be pure rufus of that alligator stuff, LOL Wildside used everyone they bred much like tudors, good dogs.. well wildside dogs that are out there are wildside dogs, hardly any out there and the ones that are have all the goodies in one.. Does this help or just confuse you more? Hmm.. Okay.. what ever dog is in the pedigree the most is what your dog is, NOW what ever THAT dog is, is off of~ SO you would have mayday if his name more than any, and thats off of that Jocko/redboy/bolio or tants/hollingsworth type breeding.. which names the line for most..
 

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But can you really claim that your dog is a Mayday dog if the Mayday dogs are 6-7-8 generations back -- and since those generations your dog has been scatterbred???
 

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K9 Pshrynk & Conciliare~
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No.. you look at your 7 gen... what ever dog appears most is the what "bloodline" you have and what ever that dog is made up of is what your dog is down from ;) unless off course its a pure Jocko/redboy/bolio from heavy inbred decendents of Mayday and Lukane then of course yes those would be Mayday bred dogs... some would say Mayday Lukane bred dogs, :hammer: okay whatever its both the same as Lukane is an inbred tants dog and son of Mayday,http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=2433. You would say this is a Tants(Jocko/Redboy) bred dog outcrossed with bolio/sorrels. Here look at this dog its sired by mayday but its clearly a 3/4 bolio 1/4 Jocko/Redboy(Tants) out cross, here you would have a Tants outcrossed Bolio dog or Bolio outcrossed or with or having Tants outwash.. ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [127427] :: PACHACAMAC KENNEL'S HAPPY 3XW

Heres a great brood that Bailey snagged up, she is Jocko outcrossed with redboy/lonzo ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [38648] :: BAILEY'S ELVIRA

You could say Jocko with redboy, lonzo outcrosses..
 

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Okay, I know this is going to sound stupid, LOL, but where do you see the Bolio or Sorrel?? I'm trying to learn, honest, but it's slow-going. This is like a whole nother language to me.
 

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K9 Pshrynk & Conciliare~
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THe bottom half of Mayday is Bolio, inbred Bolio dogs like tonka and others like Crash and Tuffy, Bolio and tombstone became one line as Jocko/redboy became one line similar fashion, the blood works so well together why fix whats broken.. so to speak. SO see my own associations are coming through in my writting, because I call tombstone/bolio, simply bolio but really maybe it should be tombstone as that is where most of the stock is at... Hmm. There are other Bolio dogs out there without patricks but its hard for someone not to cross out to patrick just like for someone pushin pure chavis is gonna have to settle on a redboy outcross or infusion sooner or later becasue the two have become one.. Which is why most call it Tombstone/bolio as they do Jocko/Redboy; I reckon. As far as the Sorrells goes, Sorrells is in the bottom half of the bottom half Chisel is half Sorrells
 

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K9 Pshrynk & Conciliare~
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K9 Pshrynk & Conciliare~
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ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [397] :: TANT'S YELLOW (6XW)

a lil more redboy than jocko, so would be redboy jocko. actually this is a tudors, colby dog with OFRN out if you look at what the dogs are made up of. Tudors colby crosses in the pure were as good as it gets in many cases thus the Jocko/Redboy ;)

As for the Tombstone and Bolio both are Tudors Heinzel dogs of course colby lightner being the source of the other two dog mens inter breedings, see a similarity here?

its the key crosses between Tudors, Colby, and various game bred OFRN lines Nebbeltts bred dogs, Lightner, Hemphill/wilder etc, that have built and intertwined as one "line" so to speak.. The APBTs are technically supposed to be named after the owners last name and then dog name, just for such purposes to keep up with who did what with what dog and what "line". Tants is Jocko/redboy although he had midnight cowboy dogs and Jocko/Eli type crosses as well ;) thats not what done well nor is what the name is known for. if you notice lines that I speak of are known by the crosses of the dogs, otherwise we'd be saying a tudors/colby bred dog with lightner and klaus outs, but that wouldnt be accurate because each dog is only 6.25 percent of those type dogs. But what if all the dogs in the 4th are really stacked one dog, and repeated with other chs, well then you have a TRUE line such as Colby, Norrod, and Hammonds; Tants and Patrick are also on this track JMO that they aren't there yet.
 
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