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i would like to know how people view titles/champions and so forth, i mean what does it really mean? it is always mentioned before you breed you should title your dog, what for? does something happen after your dog becomes titled? are these shows really about the dogs or about us?

i just dont see why i have to go to a show so that someone can tell me that my dog is worthy, beautiful and so on. if i show my dogs does that make me a better breeder and if so how? i guess what im getting at is that imho a titled dogs isnt better than a non titled dog bred correctly, jmo and i would like yours.

btw people please dont make this into a apbt vs ast vs am bully, thanks in advance
 

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Some people like show dogs. I would think of it as a Hobbie. If it's not ur thing you can stick to having a pet(not my thing either). To Breed your dog you don't need a title but if I understand correctly if you want papers and a legit liter you need a title.

A titled dog can be better then a non title and vice-versa, depends on what you want in a dog.
 

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I believe it is important because you get educated judgments of how well your dog measure up to the standard. I have had many beautiful dogs that were not within the breed standard. Plus...if you want to get a name for you breeding program your dogsshouldbe known for more than crapping in your yard and sleeping on the couch...lol
 

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Conformation shows IMO are extremely important to the American Bully world in specific.



Sadly conformations shows have ruined many breeds with people breeding just for looks and loosing working quality.


However with the placing of well built American Bullies and them earning titles it will help set a standard for this breed that is often bred in misproportions.



It has also open the weight pull section for the bred as well. These shows are starting talk of weight pulls giving even more for people with these dogs to be able to compete in under their own recognized breed name.
 

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From what I understand, conformation shows are held in any breed to prove worthy breeding stock. That is why the dog must be intact. By winning an award it says "this is what a ____ should look like" according to the standard. I think American Bullies really need to establish a standard. There is still a lot of deformities out there being bred.
 

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If I understand you correctly, you are suggesting that if a dog is titled , it was still the same dog before it was titled, and would be the same quality of dog had it not been titled. While that is true, breeding a dog, especially a bully breed takes a great deal of responsibility, and putting the effort into titling your dog, and networking in the community help establish your good intentions. Yes, an experienced breeder, trainer or handler can often judge the conformation of a dog without titles, but then what is the reason for the breeding if not to produce more titled dogs? Who will be buying or receiving these dogs? Do you really have up to 15 friends and family who can proide a good home for the next 15 years? I don't know 15 people I would trust with my dog, but if you are an active member of the community and you work or show your dogs, it opens up a realm of potential homes for your pups. IMO if you (by you I do not mean a specific person, just any person in generally) do not work, show, or title your dogs, you personally do not deserve the responsibility of being a breeder, whether or not your dog is fit to breed. A bad breeder breeding a good dog is just as dangerous to a breed as a dog with genetic defects is.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Some people like show dogs. I would think of it as a Hobbie. If it's not ur thing you can stick to having a pet(not my thing either). To Breed your dog you don't need a title but if I understand correctly if you want papers and a legit liter you need a title.

A titled dog can be better then a non title and vice-versa, depends on what you want in a dog.
I don't know if shows are my thing to be honest, that's still To be determined. Why should my dog be considered just a pet, I Think work dog would suffice.
I believe it is important because you get educated judgments of how well your dog measure up to the standard. I have had many beautiful dogs that were not within the breed standard. Plus...if you want to get a name for you breeding program your dogsshouldbe known for more than crapping in your yard and sleeping on the couch...lol
imho a reputable breeder should be able to determine whether a dog is within standard or not but I dig what you are saying.

Conformation shows IMO are extremely important to the American Bully world in specific.

Sadly conformations shows have ruined many breeds with people breeding just for looks and loosing working quality.

However with the placing of well built American Bullies and them earning titles it will help set a standard for this breed that is often bred in misproportions.

It has also open the weight pull section for the bred as well. These shows are starting talk of weight pulls giving even more for people with these dogs to be able to compete in under their own recognized breed name.
You never cease to amaze me great post!
From what I understand, conformation shows are held in any breed to prove worthy breeding stock. That is why the dog must be intact. By winning an award it says "this is what a ____ should look like" according to the standard. I think American Bullies really need to establish a standard. There is still a lot of deformities out there being bred.
the apbt wasn't originally bred as much for a certain look, It was bred more so for ability, So I find it harder to judge it on a set standard. I would prefer it be judged on working ability but that's jmo. So imo working ability should determine what dogs should be bred but like I said jmo. We are in agreement on the bully.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
If I understand you correctly, you are suggesting that if a dog is titled , it was still the same dog before it was titled, and would be the same quality of dog had it not been titled. While that is true, breeding a dog, especially a bully breed takes a great deal of responsibility, and putting the effort into titling your dog, and networking in the community help establish your good intentions. Yes, an experienced breeder, trainer or handler can often judge the conformation of a dog without titles, but then what is the reason for the breeding if not to produce more titled dogs? Who will be buying or receiving these dogs? Do you really have up to 15 friends and family who can proide a good home for the next 15 years? I don't know 15 people I would trust with my dog, but if you are an active member of the community and you work or show your dogs, it opens up a realm of potential homes for your pups. IMO if you (by you I do not mean a specific person, just any person in generally) do not work, show, or title your dogs, you personally do not deserve the responsibility of being a breeder, whether or not your dog is fit to breed. A bad breeder breeding a good dog is just as dangerous to a breed as a dog with genetic defects is.
That is exactly what I'm saying, said dog was worthy of beeing bred before championed. While I can agree that breeding bully breed dogs requires the up most responsibility, I cannot agree with the statement that championing your dog makes you a better breeder. You see, some intend to breed for looks/conformation but does this better the breed? The way I Look at it is a responsible breeder should aim to better the breed, that should be first and fore most. Also imho a responsible breeder should know when to cull, unfortunately many have forgotten this important aspect of breeding.

Imho showing or championing means nothing in comparison with working ability but I think I'm a lil old school, lol. Also imho a bad breeder is a bad breeder regardless of titles. Just my thoughts
 

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i would like to know how people view titles/champions and so forth, i mean what does it really mean? it is always mentioned before you breed you should title your dog, what for? does something happen after your dog becomes titled? are these shows really about the dogs or about us?

i just dont see why i have to go to a show so that someone can tell me that my dog is worthy, beautiful and so on. if i show my dogs does that make me a better breeder and if so how? i guess what im getting at is that imho a titled dogs isnt better than a non titled dog bred correctly, jmo and i would like yours.

btw people please dont make this into a apbt vs ast vs am bully, thanks in advance
Good question ~ The basic reason people would title their dogs is so they may be worthy of breeding. The term BYB (back yard breeder) hurts the dogs more then anything. Simply because dogs end up in horrible homes - not saying all new owners are bad owners. But it comes down to responsibility. Most BYBs breed their dogs with no worthy title just to MAKE money ~ Not to mention those dogs may be subjected to various health problems depending on the resources a BYB may or may not have. Then you get the people who BYB mixed dogs to get the appearance of what "stupid" people see as being a Purebreed.
To title a dog is not for self gain in my opinion - those who do its mostly to show dedication to their dog - Not to mention it helps to fight against BSL ~ Simply because responsible owners show how wonderful these breed or breeds can be - I guess another good reason would be to keep the dogs healthy - the exercise is good for them !
 

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That is exactly what I'm saying, said dog was worthy of beeing bred before championed. While I can agree that breeding bully breed dogs requires the up most responsibility, I cannot agree with the statement that championing your dog makes you a better breeder. You see, some intend to breed for looks/conformation but does this better the breed? The way I Look at it is a responsible breeder should aim to better the breed, that should be first and fore most. Also imho a responsible breeder should know when to cull, unfortunately many have forgotten this important aspect of breeding.

Imho showing or championing means nothing in comparison with working ability but I think I'm a lil old school, lol. Also imho a bad breeder is a bad breeder regardless of titles. Just my thoughts
I agree that a dog can still be titled by a bad breeder, but I believe that you will find more a higher percentage of breeders with no titled dogs being irresponsible than you will among breeders who title. IMO titling does not demonstrate the worthiness of a dog as much as it does the integrity and strength of a breeder. While there are no guarantees, why would want to breed if you dont want to title, breeders should breed to achieve goals like working or championing, if you dont plan to do that, adopt a dog that needs a home, or buy from a reputable breeder, dont bring a litter into the world for your own vanity "I want a dog bred from my dog, because he's so great".
 

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If I understand you correctly, you are suggesting that if a dog is titled , it was still the same dog before it was titled, and would be the same quality of dog had it not been titled. While that is true, breeding a dog, especially a bully breed takes a great deal of responsibility, and putting the effort into titling your dog, and networking in the community help establish your good intentions. Yes, an experienced breeder, trainer or handler can often judge the conformation of a dog without titles, but then what is the reason for the breeding if not to produce more titled dogs? Who will be buying or receiving these dogs? Do you really have up to 15 friends and family who can proide a good home for the next 15 years? I don't know 15 people I would trust with my dog, but if you are an active member of the community and you work or show your dogs, it opens up a realm of potential homes for your pups. IMO if you (by you I do not mean a specific person, just any person in generally) do not work, show, or title your dogs, you personally do not deserve the responsibility of being a breeder, whether or not your dog is fit to breed. A bad breeder breeding a good dog is just as dangerous to a breed as a dog with genetic defects is.
:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:

I for a long time had no interest in conformation shows. I believed that if you are breeding you should yourself have the ability to judge your dog and yours more harshly than others. However showing does put forth that time and dedication that you are active with your dogs.

And you being active in the show and working world opens up show and working homes, but also after putting so much work into these dogs you really start to get particular over what you breed and that is becoming oh so necessarily.
 

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Good question ~ The basic reason people would title their dogs is so they may be worthy of breeding. The term BYB (back yard breeder) hurts the dogs more then anything. Simply because dogs end up in horrible homes - not saying all new owners are bad owners. But it comes down to responsibility. Most BYBs breed their dogs with no worthy title just to MAKE money ~ Not to mention those dogs may be subjected to various health problems depending on the resources a BYB may or may not have. Then you get the people who BYB mixed dogs to get the appearance of what "stupid" people see as being a Purebreed.
To title a dog is not for self gain in my opinion - those who do its mostly to show dedication to their dog - Not to mention it helps to fight against BSL ~ Simply because responsible owners show how wonderful these breed or breeds can be - I guess another good reason would be to keep the dogs healthy - the exercise is good for them !
I love your answer I can dig that, made me smile lol.

I agree that a dog can still be titled by a bad breeder, but I believe that you will find more a higher percentage of breeders with no titled dogs being irresponsible than you will among breeders who title. IMO titling does not demonstrate the worthiness of a dog as much as it does the integrity and strength of a breeder. While there are no guarantees, why would want to breed if you dont want to title, breeders should breed to achieve goals like working or championing, if you dont plan to do that, adopt a dog that needs a home, or buy from a reputable breeder, dont bring a litter into the world for your own vanity "I want a dog bred from my dog, because he's so great".
my question doesn't concern bybs I'm speaking about responsible people breeding responsibly, titled dogs mean nothing to me, id take a good old fashioned ugly non papered non titled dog bred for working ability over a pretty dog any day of the year. Like i said the goal for any breeder should be the betterment of the breed, this is a breed that was bred for ability and it should still be bred that way. I see what you are saying though and it makes sense to an extent, I just think a lil different lol

:godpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:

I for a long time had no interest in conformation shows. I believed that if you are breeding you should yourself have the ability to judge your dog and yours more harshly than others. However showing does put forth that time and dedication that you are active with your dogs.

And you being active in the show and working world opens up show and working homes, but also after putting so much work into these dogs you really start to get particular over what you breed and that is becoming oh so necessarily.
I dig the homes part especially the working home lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Sorry Americanpit13 I think I deleted something when I quoted you and I don't know how to fix it
 

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I think a good dog is not only a ch or gr ch but also has working titles. The conformation titles should be icing on the cake.
 

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Sorry Americanpit13 I think I deleted something when I quoted you and I don't know how to fix it
Well I tried to fix it and I think I messed up your post:hammer: They call me the douch* bag mod lmao:roll: I am here for my good looks HAHAHAHA:D
 

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I love your answer I can dig that, made me smile lol.

my question doesn't concern bybs I'm speaking about responsible people breeding responsibly, titled dogs mean nothing to me, id take a good old fashioned ugly non papered non titled dog bred for working ability over a pretty dog any day of the year. Like i said the goal for any breeder should be the betterment of the breed, this is a breed that was bred for ability and it should still be bred that way. I see what you are saying though and it makes sense to an extent, I just think a lil different lol

:godpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:
When I say titling I do not mean only conformation, titles refer to working and showing. If you do not work your dog as part of your living, like k9 officer, farm dog, herding dog, etc, unless you work for titles how will you know if it is worth breeding? You can breed a dog for ability, but that's no guarantee that it will have the will or ability, the only way to know is to work it (either in formal competitions or in daily life). Some dogs that come from strong working lines end up not having the will, so to just breed without knowing first hand is not bettering the breed. If you live on a ranch and have a dog that is absolutely indespensible to your daily life, or if you have a dog that is your partner in search and rescue, or any similar scenario, than yes, by all means breed that dog.
 

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In general I only judge working ability in regards to dogs performing a task that the breed was bred for, or by a working event that judges them on some aspect that I can remotely bring back to what the breed was bred for. For example Labs are retrievers, look in their history and they should be good swimmers, and they should be able to work great with humans, IE commands and be obedient. So, that being said I would look highly upon a dog who competes in field events, obedience, dock jumping, and as a seeing eye dog, etc.

However, a Lab that was a great weight pull dog, uhhh no, a great Sch dog uhhh no, personal protection or guard dog uhhhh no. Only in events that can be related to the breeds purpose. IMO

That's where it becomes tricky with the APBT, being what it's primary purpose was. People think that the breed was bred to be an all around athlete, wrong, they were bred for a specific purpose and bred to excell at that purpose! To be the best dog for that purpose! Did old dogmen condition there dogs with weights? Condition them by dragging weights down a country road? Did they do obedience training, or run them through weave poles, while the dog was in a keep, did they practice 5 minute down stays before they rolled them? Just asking lol. Look that's why working titles are different in regards to our breed.

The purpose of a dog show, as stated before was to evaluate potential breeding stock, now a good breeder can evaluate breeding stock as well as most judges, but most breeders become kennel blind, that's the purpose in my opinion to prevent that kennel blindness. You need 3 different judges to earn a CH title, and you need 3 different judges out of 5 CH wins to be a Grand. As to get more than one opinion on a particular dog.

I am proud of my all my dogs GRCH titles as I am proud of their UWP, or UWPCH titles (weight pull titles), I am proud of their passing health scores, but mostly I'm proud of them passing the TT.

My youngest UKC boy gets his last leg for UWP tommorow, and hopefully will be TT tested early next year.

Do these letters and numbers make him better as a dog? Nope, just the letters and numbers he has to have to live with me, and what he has to have if he ever wants to get lucky with a female in his lifetime, and if the stars are right, and she has similar numbers and letters, then he might get lucky and be bred once or twice, but heck I've had a couple that did everything right and still are living the life of old bachelors, so who knows.

It is important to do something with your dog, because what I really hate are backyard Champions, backyard obedience Titles, backyard weight pull titles and backyard breeders.
These are the people who tell me their dog could do it because he watches him, works him in the backyard, then breed them in the same backyard. If they can then go out and do it! I would but I don't have papers! Then hey exit stage left and thanks for coming out to the game show " I want to be a breeder" take your complimentary gift, a $75 spay and nueter certificate!

Set titled/tested standards for the parents of your next pup, in my opinion the higher your standards for the parents, does not mean a better pup, but it definitely will have you buy from a better breeder.
 

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Conformation shows IMO are extremely important to the American Bully world in specific.

Sadly conformations shows have ruined many breeds with people breeding just for looks and loosing working quality.


However with the placing of well built American Bullies and them earning titles it will help set a standard for this breed that is often bred in misproportions.


It has also open the weight pull section for the bred as well. These shows are starting talk of weight pulls giving even more for people with these dogs to be able to compete in under their own recognized breed name.
:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:
 
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