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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i've NEVER heard it up until the last few weeks. and now i've heard it almost everyday. i've never had a dog that went through a "fear stage". that just seems, honestly, SILLY.
can someone go into more detail about it.
like at what age is it typical?
how long does it normally last?
is it something that they might not grow out of?
do you think it could make or break a dog?

Lowla is a little sketched out. but thats all due to the POS breeders neglect. she's getting a whole lot better but is still kinda sketchy. i dont believe it to be genetic.
 

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she always been that way since you got her or that just start? I havent really dealt with that mine always seemed to be eager to see things and get into everything lol. Did the breeders just not handle the pups enough no socialization? Nothing out of the blue scared her lately maybe making her cautious?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
she always been that way since you got her or that just start? I havent really dealt with that mine always seemed to be eager to see things and get into everything lol. Did the breeders just not handle the pups enough no socialization? Nothing out of the blue scared her lately maybe making her cautious?
always been like that since we got her.
the breeders didnt handle her enough, at all. i've got lots to say about the breeders, but i'll save that for another thread... *SMH*.
she did get worse for a good month or so, but now she is improving daily. and seems to be taking life head on.
she just started turning into a dog that i REALLY like working with. she's a really good family dog if nothing else. Riley love her and she loves to play with him too. I think she may miss Wheezie though, its weird.

thats why i was so surprised to hear about the fear stage, i've never delt with it or really heard of it.
 

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wheres wheezie? I must be behind on threads. I actually did have a skiddish dog keep forgettin about pep but she wasnt pup { they lied about her age found out when we got papers she is younger then they told us } but she was very timid It is really cool to be able to watch them come out of there shells though and become real dogs pep wouldnt even play with a ball when we got her we would pick it up and she would hit the ground and cower now she jumps and plays and gets all goofy lol really neat to watch her. Hopefully Lowla keeps progressing for you Im sure being so young she will come out of that fast just takes effort on your part which im sure you are doing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
we re-homed wheezie on friday. had a huge falling out with bully angel kennels. me among various other people. its really messed up and something i didnt see coming.

to be honest i really wasnt into lowla after we got her. it was really upsetting.
but the last month or so, man oh man am i having fun with her! she's getting into the spring pole. and she's actually quite the worker. at 6 months old i didnt expect her to be as strong as she is. i really hope her hips check out good at 2yrs so we can persue WP.
shes the type of dog that your just super excited to get up and work with everyday
 

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thats too bad about wheezie but you never want to be locked into anything with people who arent on the same page as you , hope that all works out. That would be cool if you can do the wp with her she is pretty sometimes it just takes awhile to build that bond with some dogs , some are instant some take some work I guess :) you need to post some pics of her soon bet she has grown a ton already.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
i lost my camara!!! :(
i guess im kind of used to having that instant bond with a dog. with lowla i really had to work for it. but its worth it. she has more drive than any dog i've ever had and i didnt expect that out of her.
she's gotten pretty big. she's around 50#'s. im waiting for her to fill out, but she's maturing very nicely.
with building her confidence her DA towards nismo has pretty much vanished. though i still dont trust her, i will let them play now. the house is finally starting to come together.
we're getting her ears cropped next week also :)
 

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SRK's Hero Of War CGC
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I am sorry to hear that the kennel didn't work out for you guys and that you had to re-home your male. stuff like that is never easy to deal with..but anyways, getting back on topic and to answer your question. Yes, Dogs do go through stages. I posted this on another forum and It is helpful imo.

Developmental Stages
 

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English Dogge Yard
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This "fear stage" is more new aged crap. You either have a confident pup/dog or you don't just as you have a worker or you don't. Use some common sense and it goes along way, keep new experiences positive, PROPERLY socialize (not talking dog parks folks) the pup with various environments, people, sights, sounds, etc. Know your dog, theres a line that should not be crossed.. A breaking point. Figure that line out and don't cross it, push your dog to succeed in a positive way and you will end up with a secure, mature dog.

As to the pup, give it time. Introduce slowly new environments and situations, depending on severity you be on a long road but the key is to always remain calm. Too stressful back out don't push your dog through, all dogs are different and it doesn't sound like the pup has natural confidence.. You will have to build that confidence up in baby steps.
 

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Know your dog, theres a line that should not be crossed.. A breaking point. Figure that line out and don't cross it, push your dog to succeed in a positive way and you will end up with a secure, mature dog.
This is all you need, really.

Pups have different levels of innate confidence, and the experiences you provide during their life, particularly as a puppy, build on that and can affect it either positively or negatively. If you see your pup getting nervous, it's time to back off whatever you're doing and give them a break. Then come at it again in a different, slower way. This doesn't apply to all situations though--there are some situations where it's better to push your dog through their nervousness, to allow them to build their confidence and see that they can achieve things (mostly) on their own.

Like KM said, it all comes down to knowing your dog. I can push Kane through environmental apprehension, but because of his abusive puppyhood, I know I can't push him through people apprehension, especially around big tall men. He will come around to them on his own and it's best (for him) to allow him to work through his fear on his own.
 

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This "fear stage" is more new aged crap. You either have a confident pup/dog or you don't just as you have a worker or you don't. Use some common sense and it goes along way, keep new experiences positive, PROPERLY socialize (not talking dog parks folks) the pup with various environments, people, sights, sounds, etc. Know your dog, theres a line that should not be crossed.. A breaking point. Figure that line out and don't cross it, push your dog to succeed in a positive way and you will end up with a secure, mature dog.

As to the pup, give it time. Introduce slowly new environments and situations, depending on severity you be on a long road but the key is to always remain calm. Too stressful back out don't push your dog through, all dogs are different and it doesn't sound like the pup has natural confidence.. You will have to build that confidence up in baby steps.
Some dogs can go through a fear stage so I have to disagree with you there. It is not new age stuff it is pretty common knowledge. Not all dog go through that but some do and just like kids it is a stage of uncertainty and when they are worked out of it many are just fine. During this time you can make or break a dog. Not helping the dog get over these issues could make the fear worse and make it be a problem for life. Then if you help the pup by proper socialization most get over it quickly. In Lowla's case I think doing what he is doing is best to help the pup get over it, it just takes a little time. Tempest went through a horrible fear stage where everything was scary and I thought I was going to have a hard time with her. She was never touched by people when she was younger and would jump if I pet her. After a few months she is the dog she is today. Very out going and not afraid of anything. I do not think I can remember when anything freaked her out.

If by 'new age crap' you mean science, then yes, that is where the idea of the fear stages came from.

Puppy Development Stages and Puppy Growth - Canine Behavior and Training
Now I cannot agree with all of that study especially about the prenatal development. If so everyone who had a working female who works while pregnant and was under stress and had adrenaline would have crappy litters. Everyone I know who has performances bred dogs has never had such a thing, shoot Siren always worked up till right before the week she had pups in sports as stressful as Schutzhund. I can kind of see the direction they were trying to go in but they have it all wrong IMO and I know plenty of trainers that would agree. Just because they did a study does not make it cold hard fact, you can find a study to prove just about any point and it can be spun in any direction they want. While I agree with fear stages many parts of that article just do not seem right right based on my experiences.

There is a lot of who ha new crap out there and really it makes me sick that they are complicating even the easiest of things. I completely know where KMdog is coming from. OMGosh I have seen some of the new training techniques and it is really a pile of crap a lot of times........
It is just like what is wrong with kids these days and who they are not respectful any more and like to blame others for thier actions. It is the way society has become and it is bleeding over into dog training and is a load of crap. We have a generation of self entitled disrespectful little dirt bags and now we are treating the dogs the same. Oh man that is a whole other can of worms......:mad:
 

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When I first got Helena I bought a book at Petsmart about APBT's and it did talk about fear periods in it. I don't remember the exact ages. I do think one was around the time they went into heat.
 

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English Dogge Yard
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Some dogs can go through a fear stage so I have to disagree with you there. It is not new age stuff it is pretty common knowledge. Not all dog go through that but some do and just like kids it is a stage of uncertainty and when they are worked out of it many are just fine. During this time you can make or break a dog. Not helping the dog get over these issues could make the fear worse and make it be a problem for life. Then if you help the pup by proper socialization most get over it quickly. In Lowla's case I think doing what he is doing is best to help the pup get over it, it just takes a little time. Tempest went through a horrible fear stage where everything was scary and I thought I was going to have a hard time with her. She was never touched by people when she was younger and would jump if I pet her. After a few months she is the dog she is today. Very out going and not afraid of anything. I do not think I can remember when anything freaked her out.

Now I cannot agree with all of that study especially about the prenatal development. If so everyone who had a working female who works while pregnant and was under stress and had adrenaline would have crappy litters. Everyone I know who has performances bred dogs has never had such a thing, shoot Siren always worked up till right before the week she had pups in sports as stressful as Schutzhund. I can kind of see the direction they were trying to go in but they have it all wrong IMO and I know plenty of trainers that would agree. Just because they did a study does not make it cold hard fact, you can find a study to prove just about any point and it can be spun in any direction they want. While I agree with fear stages many parts of that article just do not seem right right based on my experiences.

There is a lot of who ha new crap out there and really it makes me sick that they are complicating even the easiest of things. I completely know where KMdog is coming from. OMGosh I have seen some of the new training techniques and it is really a pile of crap a lot of times........
It is just like what is wrong with kids these days and who they are not respectful any more and like to blame others for thier actions. It is the way society has become and it is bleeding over into dog training and is a load of crap. We have a generation of self entitled disrespectful little dirt bags and now we are treating the dogs the same. Oh man that is a whole other can of worms......:mad:
:goodpost:

I don't know i stand by my post.. Never dealt with a "stage of uncertainty or fear" from any pup i've owned or any dog i've trained. If there was fear it was explained by another reason not by calling it a stage. To me that sounds..well you know. ;)
 

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Some dogs can go through a fear stage so I have to disagree with you there. It is not new age stuff it is pretty common knowledge. Not all dog go through that but some do and just like kids it is a stage of uncertainty and when they are worked out of it many are just fine. During this time you can make or break a dog. Not helping the dog get over these issues could make the fear worse and make it be a problem for life. Then if you help the pup by proper socialization most get over it quickly. In Lowla's case I think doing what he is doing is best to help the pup get over it, it just takes a little time. Tempest went through a horrible fear stage where everything was scary and I thought I was going to have a hard time with her. She was never touched by people when she was younger and would jump if I pet her. After a few months she is the dog she is today. Very out going and not afraid of anything. I do not think I can remember when anything freaked her out.
That pretty much sums it up right there!

Now I cannot agree with all of that study especially about the prenatal development. If so everyone who had a working female who works while pregnant and was under stress and had adrenaline would have crappy litters. Everyone I know who has performances bred dogs has never had such a thing, shoot Siren always worked up till right before the week she had pups in sports as stressful as Schutzhund. I can kind of see the direction they were trying to go in but they have it all wrong IMO and I know plenty of trainers that would agree. Just because they did a study does not make it cold hard fact, you can find a study to prove just about any point and it can be spun in any direction they want. While I agree with fear stages many parts of that article just do not seem right right based on my experiences.
I linked that article because it was good, scientifically backed information on the fear stages.
The prenatal study is based off a rats, which being an entirely different species, makes it difficult to draw a solid conclusion on stresses effects on pregnant dogs.
Their study on petting and pregnant dogs does hold weight IMO.

It is just like what is wrong with kids these days and who they are not respectful any more and like to blame others for thier actions. It is the way society has become and it is bleeding over into dog training and is a load of crap. We have a generation of self entitled disrespectful little dirt bags and now we are treating the dogs the same. Oh man that is a whole other can of worms......:mad:
Perhaps you should be a little less judgmental and not pin unfounded stereotypes on the younger generation. After all, they may be the ones changing our diapers :)
Bashing the younger generation is however nothing new, in 1967, Time Magazine ran an article about the "hippies," (Baby Boomers) stating, "to their deeply worried parents throughout the country, they seem more like dangerously deluded dropouts, candidates for a very sound spanking and a cram course in civics." In the 1920's the Dallas Morning News described youth of the day as not caring about people, not "having any sense of shame, honor or duty."
Or heck, if you wanted to go back-
"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"
Plato's Republic Book 4
"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond
words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and
respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise
[disrespectful] and impatient of restraint"
Hesiod, 8th century BC
 

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Trevor she may just need some extra work, love and care. I'm not sure of the situation she was in before you had her but she could be going through what Dosia was when I got him. He went through a very fearful stage because he was abused. OMG the first time I put a collar on him and tried to go for a walk he flipped out and started screaming like I was gunna kill him. I know you love your dogs a lot and take great care of them, she'll figure that out soon too ;) She may just need some time to get used to being treated good. Shoot look at Dosia now, he's fearless. Doing great with DD and WP, and I have no doubt in my mind he'll pass his CGC test in a few weeks. I think your going to see a lot more progression with her now since your forming a good bond with her :)
 

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Dare to dance the tide
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I have seen pups go through times when they are scared. Just like humans it really isnt any different. I figure tho if you are confident and dont coddle the fear stage your dog will grow out of it. I see it more among pups that are not taken out and socialized at an early age. Those that the owner didnt want to take out until all shots are completed.
 

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English Dogge Yard
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That pretty much sums it up right there!

I linked that article because it was good, scientifically backed information on the fear stages.
The prenatal study is based off a rats, which being an entirely different species, makes it difficult to draw a solid conclusion on stresses effects on pregnant dogs.
Their study on petting and pregnant dogs does hold weight IMO.

Perhaps you should be a little less judgmental and not pin unfounded stereotypes on the younger generation. After all, they may be the ones changing our diapers :)
Bashing the younger generation is however nothing new, in 1967, Time Magazine ran an article about the "hippies," (Baby Boomers) stating, "to their deeply worried parents throughout the country, they seem more like dangerously deluded dropouts, candidates for a very sound spanking and a cram course in civics." In the 1920's the Dallas Morning News described youth of the day as not caring about people, not "having any sense of shame, honor or duty."
Or heck, if you wanted to go back-
"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"
Plato's Republic Book 4
"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond
words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and
respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise
[disrespectful] and impatient of restraint"
Hesiod, 8th century BC
New aged way of thinking doesn't always have to imply "youth". Shows like the Dog Whisperer pretty much sums up (as one example) my view on new aged beliefs.

I will also say that just because its scientifically backed doesn't make it true, just because its published also doesn't make it true. IMO like anything experience goes along way, experience and the willingness to absorb knowledge and information passed down from those who have been doing it for years. This goes for anything, anyone can read but to truly understand what it means... you can't get that from online or a book. You have to be there.

Just an example: "Pit Bulls have been scientifically proven to have the lock-jaw mechanism." Statement true or false? A quick search online and you can find literally hundreds of articles and "science facts" supporting both sides of the argument. In the end, this is infact false.

I have seen pups go through times when they are scared. Just like humans it really isnt any different. I figure tho if you are confident and dont coddle the fear stage your dog will grow out of it. I see it more among pups that are not taken out and socialized at an early age. Those that the owner didnt want to take out until all shots are completed.
This is part of my point, if a "fear stage" was natural i would i believe i would have experienced it by now. Granted i have not trained no where near as much as someone like PK has but i have done my fair share. Any fear i have seen has been a result of improper socializing which boils down to a human factor some where along the line. The keeper (past or present in the dogs life) did not succeed in socializing therefore the pup breaks down to the unknown. To me, this is not a stage. In my opinion puppy - senior, any stages that make up these times should at least affect the majority of population as there are always exceptions in some form or another. I don't think i have had all the luck in the world to completely bypass a stage with every pup.

Now i agree there are vital stages in a puppies life however i've never dealt with a "fear stage".
 

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That pretty much sums it up right there!

I linked that article because it was good, scientifically backed information on the fear stages.
The prenatal study is based off a rats, which being an entirely different species, makes it difficult to draw a solid conclusion on stresses effects on pregnant dogs.
Their study on petting and pregnant dogs does hold weight IMO.

Perhaps you should be a little less judgmental and not pin unfounded stereotypes on the younger generation. After all, they may be the ones changing our diapers :)
Bashing the younger generation is however nothing new, in 1967, Time Magazine ran an article about the "hippies," (Baby Boomers) stating, "to their deeply worried parents throughout the country, they seem more like dangerously deluded dropouts, candidates for a very sound spanking and a cram course in civics." In the 1920's the Dallas Morning News described youth of the day as not caring about people, not "having any sense of shame, honor or duty."
Or heck, if you wanted to go back-
"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"
Plato's Republic Book 4
"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond
words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and
respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise
[disrespectful] and impatient of restraint"
Hesiod, 8th century BC
Do you have kids? You sound young and if you had kids and see what is being taught and the way kids are turning out then you might have a different view but that is just opinions and everyone has one.

Now i agree there are vital stages in a puppies life however i've never dealt with a "fear stage".[/QUOTE]

I have plenty of times with well balanced dogs and IMO it should not last more than a few weeks and it is not that they are terrified but maybe unsure and that is normal. What is not normal and more of a temperament issue is if it lasts for months. A dog can have not a great temperament but still be a pretty normal dog. Maybe they have some fear issues but are fine most of the time. It is hard to explain, there are lots of temperament problems a dog can have that does not mean DA, FA, HA, or anything like that. Dogs like people can have quarks.
 
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