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Discussion Starter #1
So after some ignoramus posted on a forum,about how ALL pit Bulls should have heavy duty Prong collars,and not harnesses or collars,I decided to see what everyone here thinks.

I personally do not like prong or harnesses. I feel prongs are not necessary unless you really can't control your dog.
and I feel with harnesses,they just encourage your dog to pull more.

I like regular old collars myself,but if I HAD to use a correction one,I would use the nonslip I had for Bruno when he was in training.

What does everyone here think on this issue?

THIS IS THE PERSON'S ORIGINAL COMMENT
110 st in NYC needs better screening to these people who want to adopt 1 of these powerfull dogs.. when i see them walking around with A harness instead of a heavy duty pinch collar, & you try to tell the MORON you got 0 controll to no eavale , after the pit fires up just walking by 20 yards away with your dog , its a BIG problem going to happen
 

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Pits Are For Chicks
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Lol people use to ask me how I can control stack on his 3/4 inch leash and 1/2 inch bucket collar lmao. That is just dumb to think no one can control their dogs without pinch collars.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
I know. That really fired me up.
I was told to get one of those for MoMo and BOY was that a bad idea. It pissed her off even more.
It's called stop being lazy and train your dog,so it doesn't need one!

I understand that some people use them to train their dog,but if you feel you have to keep it on your dog 24/7,Your training method obviously isn't working.
 

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Use what works for your dog.

Period.

For Kane, prongs or pinch collars are too hard. They correct him more than he needs and he shuts down. For control, I like harnesses better than a collar because I've basically got his entire body versus just his head/neck, and that's what I initially used when I was being lazy about loose leash walking. Then I gave myself a kick in the butt and after looking at martingale's for a bit decided to just go back to the basics with a flat collar.
 

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i pretty much always use a regular collar. i like the products sold by stillwater since theyre high quality and dont let me down. i have never had a need for a prong collar or anything else. i just become more stubborn than my dog and eventually they learn we will be walking how i like, not how they like.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Martingal's aren't to bad,but I find for me they don't work. Beia just chokes herself.
She's not the brightest dog.
 

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Harness to get a better leg workout (and owner workout LOL)
2" collar for more of a "neck" workout (easier owner workout ;))
 

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So after some ignoramus posted on a forum,about how ALL pit Bulls should have heavy duty Prong collars,and not harnesses or collars,I decided to see what everyone here thinks.

I personally do not like prong or harnesses. I feel prongs are not necessary unless you really can't control your dog.
and I feel with harnesses,they just encourage your dog to pull more.

I like regular old collars myself,but if I HAD to use a correction one,I would use the nonslip I had for Bruno when he was in training.

What does everyone here think on this issue?

THIS IS THE PERSON'S ORIGINAL COMMENT
110 st in NYC needs better screening to these people who want to adopt 1 of these powerfull dogs.. when i see them walking around with A harness instead of a heavy duty pinch collar, & you try to tell the MORON you got 0 controll to no eavale , after the pit fires up just walking by 20 yards away with your dog , its a BIG problem going to happen
Pinch collars are an essential tool when you are physically unable to contain your dog. If you are weak, have a bad back or a bad shoulder, are elderly, or simply are smaller than your dog-- it would be stupid not to have one on. If your dog can outmuscle you, they should have one on.

Not because they will, but because they can.

Would you rather have a teeny tiny 4'8" woman with her dog aggressive pit bull in a prong collar, or a flat collar? That might be the best trained dog on the planet but if he wants to go after another dog you think his owner is gonna be able to stop him?

Say its a Mastiff, who doesnt like kids. You want him in a prong collar or a flat?

Just because the dog is IN power steering doesn't mean its being used all the time.

When I used to have gamebred dogs every dog wore a prong, every time. They heeled on a loose lead and never felt the collar, but it was there for when it was needed, and yeah. A couple times I had to pop the holy hell out of them to get their attention back to me and avert a disaster, but it worked. It broke the situation and we left.

Every tool has its time and place
 

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Prong collars are a training tool they are not designed for nor should they be used for a replacement for everyday collar
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Pinch collars are an essential tool when you are physically unable to contain your dog. If you are weak, have a bad back or a bad shoulder, are elderly, or simply are smaller than your dog-- it would be stupid not to have one on. If your dog can outmuscle you, they should have one on.

Not because they will, but because they can.

Would you rather have a teeny tiny 4'8" woman with her dog aggressive pit bull in a prong collar, or a flat collar? That might be the best trained dog on the planet but if he wants to go after another dog you think his owner is gonna be able to stop him?

Say its a Mastiff, who doesnt like kids. You want him in a prong collar or a flat?

Just because the dog is IN power steering doesn't mean its being used all the time.

When I used to have gamebred dogs every dog wore a prong, every time. They heeled on a loose lead and never felt the collar, but it was there for when it was needed, and yeah. A couple times I had to pop the holy hell out of them to get their attention back to me and avert a disaster, but it worked. It broke the situation and we left.

Every tool has its time and place
I get where you're coming from with gamebred dogs. I could see where there would be a time for them to come in handy.

But I do not agree that the dog needs one 24/7. However I have never owned a gamebred dog,so I can't really say. I have heard it's hard to get them unfocused after they focus on something.

ps: I am also from the Seattle area :3
 

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I personally dont like prong collars I think there are other just as effect tools to use then those , however i know some who swear by them so to each there own. I prefer just my flatbuckle collars or martingale chains. I do have a choke chain that I use for training if we have a stubborn dog { like crush lol} but majority of the time a couple times with that collar and I can switch back to one of the other 2 styles. I have used a halti on loki cause without it I cant control himI have a bad hip and back but have since decided that i just wont walk him period just to avoid the problem as the halti was counter acting the wp training he is doing. I have since heard bad things about the Haltis like neck injuries and such on the dog.
 

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Pinch collars are an essential tool when you are physically unable to contain your dog. If you are weak, have a bad back or a bad shoulder, are elderly, or simply are smaller than your dog-- it would be stupid not to have one on. If your dog can outmuscle you, they should have one on.

Not because they will, but because they can.

Would you rather have a teeny tiny 4'8" woman with her dog aggressive pit bull in a prong collar, or a flat collar? That might be the best trained dog on the planet but if he wants to go after another dog you think his owner is gonna be able to stop him?

Say its a Mastiff, who doesnt like kids. You want him in a prong collar or a flat?

Just because the dog is IN power steering doesn't mean its being used all the time.

When I used to have gamebred dogs every dog wore a prong, every time. They heeled on a loose lead and never felt the collar, but it was there for when it was needed, and yeah. A couple times I had to pop the holy hell out of them to get their attention back to me and avert a disaster, but it worked. It broke the situation and we left.

Every tool has its time and place
i never really thought about the really weak person with a prong collar. makes sense. personally, ive never had a dog that i couldnt control so ive never had need for anything like that.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Bruno slipped right out of the halti,after this person was all. oh! They can never get out of them! and adjusted it to fit Bruno...

Ha. Bruno can escape from anything,I should have named him Houdini.
 

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I'm not a fan honestly, I don't like the "quick fix" idea. (I'm talking about walking)

I used to use prong collars for walking, I was also quite lazy back then. I can control my dogs on a normal flat collar, and each one of the dogs I currently have, have pulled me with all they have and I could still hold them.

If you can't control/hold your dog, there are other training tools that make it easier... Easy walks, halties, etc.

As for prong collars on reactive dogs, I don't like that either, it heightens the anxiety with a lot of dogs. I've seen prong collars come off under enough pressure too, had it happen during a fight to myself(Dakota broke through a prong while I was trying to pull him away), and a few trainers I know have had them on a DA dog while training an it snapped. (Herm Sprenger, not cheap Petco ones)

It's easy to train a dog to walk on a normal collar, it just takes consistency. And a lot of people give up quickly, every dog learns at a different pace. I've had dogs who didn't start to catch on until 2 weeks of training.

Edit: If you're using a halti, or easy walk, you can also attach a martingale for safety. (In case of slipping)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I agree 100% I have had nothing but bad experiences with prongs.
I tried everything from those,to shock collars(after training didn't work) on Momo......And we all know how well that turned out.
 

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If you had a bad experience with prong or had them break then you were not using them correctly. No one is saying the dogs needs them 24/7 but when it comes to powerful dogs and owners who have a hard time hanging on a prong collar is a very powerful tool. Are they for every dog? No some dogs are too soft or have no need for prong collars.

There has been a lot of research of Halties and all the neck and back problems they cause. I do not even allow them in my class they work for a small percent of dogs but even then they are just a quick fix like a prong collar to get them not to pull. Halties are dangerous if used over time with a dog who pulls against them or time to time consistently.
Slip chains are very dangerous over time and again a lot of research has been done on them. There was a new study done on dogs who wore slip chains and they found in most dogs there were hairline fractures in the neck along with spin issues. This study was done on dogs who were in training their whole lives and used slip chains vs prongs and martingales. After the dogs died they studied the bodies and found all the problems. We were just talking about this when several of us trainers were having lunch.

The walking a harness that attaches from the front, the same as the haltie in pulling the body out of alignment. This again causes issues in the spine.

For those that need control a prong collar if used correctly is safe and effective. Those trainers that were using it with reactive dogs my guess would be they are not using them correctly. There are ways you need to correct a dog in drive properly to avoid it making them act out more. Timing is also very important, if you are too late with your correction you are not going to have good results. Those trainers that know how to properly use prongs, have good timing, and know how to correct a dog in drive they are very effective. I have seen many so called trainers that have no clue about what makes an effective correction or even how to properly deal with DA dogs. Kinda sad really....

Also there are many ways to use a prong to get the level of correction you need. You can use it on a dead ring to get a lower correction, or if you need to build drive you can build drive by giving corrections a certain way. Many times in Sch we need to build drive while a dog is barking and that can be done with the prong collar. You also can kill drive and bring a dog's drive down with a prong, again all in how you use them.

If you have a soft dog and a prong collar is too corrective them a martingale soft collar or a flat buckle collar works just fine.
 

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I agree 100% I have had nothing but bad experiences with prongs.
I tried everything from those,to shock collars(after training didn't work) on Momo......And we all know how well that turned out.
This is a perfect example of why people should seek professional help when they have problem dogs. Using a shock collar and having no idea how to use it properly is abusive the to the poor dog you are shocking. A great trainer friend of my has the best line about e collars and ignorant owners.
He said a shock collar with a novice owner, is like giving a monkey a razor blade...... Nothing good is going to come of it! :rofl: It is funnier when he says it in his German accent! Using an E collar can be a very effective tool unfortunately not many ppl know how to use them properly! Just like all these sit means sit franchises that pop up. you can be a "trainer" and an owner of the franchise by going to a 6 week seminar..... You cannot learn to be a train in 6 weeks and these people RUIN dogs!
 

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I agree Lisa they can be great tool if used in the proper manner. When I first moved in with Ryan and was working with Mack Tuck on walking and commands, Ryan would not let me walk him with out A. Being right next to me, and B. wearing his prong. The reason was this dog out weighed me and was more than twice as powerful. He wanted us to be safe, and have me learn how to handle him. After living hear a while, and spending a lot of time with him, we didn't need it anymore.
 

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Yes, I do agree that if they break you're using it wrong. I mentioned it for DA and reactive dogs because if they want to get to w/e it is they're reacting at enough, they could get out of a prong. :)
And yes, they were cruddy trainers. I was ignorant back then and let them work with Dakota. They train heel horridly, even their own dogs were avoiding eye contact because they were uncomfortable. Every dog I've seen come out of the training course they offer turned awesome to very nervous.

I don't like halties or easy walks too much myself, I would use a normal collar every time. A lot of people I know seem to refuse to use anything other than such, so I generally recommend some sort of safety for those.

I'm not one for owning a dog you can't control as it is.
 

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Yes, I do agree that if they break you're using it wrong. I mentioned it for DA and reactive dogs because if they want to get to w/e it is they're reacting at enough, they could get out of a prong. :)
And yes, they were cruddy trainers. I was ignorant back then and let them work with Dakota. They train heel horridly, even their own dogs were avoiding eye contact because they were uncomfortable. Every dog I've seen come out of the training course they offer turned awesome to very nervous.

I don't like halties or easy walks too much myself, I would use a normal collar every time. A lot of people I know seem to refuse to use anything other than such, so I generally recommend some sort of safety for those.

I'm not one for owning a dog you can't control as it is.
i know what you mean about people owning a dog they cant control. i saw a tiny little girl walking a big pit bull type dog down the street the other day and you could tell by the way they were walking that if that dog chose, he could pull her wherever he wanted to go. since my max has gotten a little bigger i havent let anyone walk him but me. for some reason he doesnt 'try" me but he will really work someone else.
 
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