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English Dogge Yard
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Discussion Starter #1
So with the over whelming of new comers here, each and every day telling us about their shelter "Pit Bull" i thought it would be wise to list reasons, as clear as possible, for those to better understand why they may be doing more harm than good.. As well knocking some sense into the world..

Reasons to not involve your newly adopted puppy in the same boat as American Pit Bull Terriers:

- A shelter dog is just that, a shelter dog. While this act is noble and surely applaudable, often shelters, rescues and pounds will list these dogs as a best guess and move on. Majority of these dogs do not have a PED nor did they come from a reputable breeder therefore it is impossible to know what you are actually feeding.

- The APBT is a world class working hound. The standard that has always been (not referring to what a group of people representing a registry says they should be) is that of a high drive, eager to please and willingness to not quit at performing the work load given.. Now pit fighting, the [] or however you would like to call it is illegal in the US and in many countries around the world so i am not suggesting to anyone that the work must be historically accurate however breeding practices that have stayed true for over a century matters and ultimately this and the [] past has not only created excellent working hounds but has created both the working traits AND family friendly breed we have today..

- Virtually all hounds with drive are PTS in shelters.. The general public no longer understands a dog with a purpose instilled in the genes.. Its all about fad, status, etc. With this said, the likely hood of you adopting an APBT from a shelter (HSUS, for instance) is highly, highly unlikely.

- Even adopted "Pit Bulls" that was surrendered with a PED, registered as an APBT does not automatically equal reality. In fact, most if not near all above standard breeders will take their hounds back if at any reason the new handlers cannot handle, cannot afford or any reason you can think of.. If they cannot care for the dog the breeder will generally take the dog back and either re home or keep on their yard.. Because of this, typically BYB's are the only ones where their dogs end up at the shelters because its all profit for them.. They don't care about the dogs nor are they breeding to benefit, preserve or advance the breed of choice. Therefore, the PED that may have come along with your newly adopted pet could be fake, forged, hung, etc. Also, breeds such as the American Bully are often registered as an APBT due to lack of knowledge, registry greed and for it sells. This can further add to the confusion however i will keep it simple for now and leave it at that.

- Avoid political crossfire.. With BSL on the rise as well as other negative impacts on the breed.. Why risk your adopted dog? Why risk having to follow even more useless government laws that make no difference? You can save yourself a whole world of hurt and headache by just referring to your adopted dog as a mutt or shelter dog. Mutt does not mean anything other than you have no idea what may be in your dog.. Which is true! You can not prove your dog is any one breed.. Especially when we are talking about working breeds such as the APBT where appearance is not a defining trait.. rather.. drive, proper structure to perform, temperament, etc.. They have to work.

- The term "Pit Bull" is not a breed within itself but rather a general title given to all those dogs that fit within what the media claims is a "Pit Bull".. This can be the American Pit Bull Terrier, American Bully, American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, Bull Terrier, Ole Bulldog, American Bulldog, Bandogs or even shelter dogs such as what you may have.. By grouping your dog within the APBT is far from accurate.. With these different purebred dogs, while you can trace them back in history as one of the same are in todays world bred for very, very different traits and overall function.. Because of this it is unfair to group these dogs as one.. Would you group all Terriers under one name? All retrievers? The temperament, function, structure, etc is different for each individual breed.. You have to remember at one point in time all dog breeds were designed to for fill a purpose.. They were bred for function and it has only been the last century or so that we, humans have bred away from function and have bred more and more pet - like features.. Because of this (and many other factors such as changing registry standards of dogs) we have created genetic disasters and have killed the function and practicality out of many dog breeds.. For instance, if you look at the English Bulldog of late 1800s and look at the EB today.. Hardly recognizable..

- These shelters do not temperament test in the way most would like to believe.. Because of this, many shelter dogs or poorly bred BYB's can turn out to have traits that the said breed(s) should not possess.. Meaning, if you continue to call your "Pit Bull" a "Pit Bull".. As that "Pit Bull" matures lets say they turn out HA (human aggressive) and bite someone.. Cause any damage its not just a dog and an accident.. Its a breed issue and all "Pit Bulls" should be banned.. This greatly affects the APBT however as already mentioned.. The spot light gets carried through on all breeds lumped and dubbed as the "Pit Bull" breed even though theres no such thing..

You chose to adopt for your own reasons, which is great however you must keep in mind the knowns and unknowns and divide them as such.. If you wanted to know exactly what went into your dog you shouldn't have adopted.. If you wanted a hound with function and ability, you may have lucked out to a degree with your adoption however going through a reputable breeder will far, far better your chances of a worker.. Near 100% as nothing is 100% in life.. You adopted a great family pet, nothing more and nothing less..
 

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Premium Member
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Really good post. The political crossfire paragraph alone should be reason enough really.
 

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9,147 Posts
Great post KM
 

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English Dogge Yard
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3,441 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Yeh .. him and Mach0 are battling it out for the Doody Award :poop:~
Haha no battle here, id say with those with proper experience and knowledge are fairly equal in our strengths.. Different hounds, different languages of explaining but at the end of the day..

Thanks everyone, feel free to sticky if you feel its worth keeping around for the new comers.. I think it was long overdue for this type of thread to exist, in all those threads pertaining to the topic.. it helps combining it all into one for reference.. Only so many ways we can explain it to people without it being a broken record daily.
 

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English Dogge Yard
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Discussion Starter #9
Km your going to break a lot of hearts with this post. I love my mutt's!
ahahah broken hearts can get over it, i dont care what people think they have or determined to believe.. If you dont know the genetic make up and history of your hound (ie PED) you don't know anything.. Could be anything.

Everyone thinks they want an APBT until they attempt to handle one.. For many as soon as they lay eyes on one and watch them in action, its enough to deter since what people have in their minds and reality are often separated by the huge gap.
 

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we should also have a post that explains other things like genetics, im always hearing " its how you raise them" a real apbt will never be HA regardless of being a pet or a fighter...we have the old school-fighters to thank for that.
 

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English Dogge Yard
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3,441 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
we should also have a post that explains other things like genetics, im always hearing " its how you raise them" a real apbt will never be HA regardless of being a pet or a fighter...we have the old school-fighters to thank for that.
When i get the time i could post up a thread about the genetics in depth of coloring, DA, etc.. Though the problem is even put in the simplest of terms it can be hard to follow for those that don't understand what they are looking at or have much prior knowledge of reading the language..

I'm also not entirely sure it would really be beneficial since im not sure there are that many people interested in learning about it here. Could be wrong though would be worth at least having it there.. I know if one was made Stan can chime in as well as he knows a great deal on the subject with hands on results.
 

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- The term "Pit Bull" is not a breed within itself but rather a general title given to all those dogs that fit within what the media claims is a "Pit Bull"..
very true KM, but it only matters what the authorities concider your dog to be. there is not many bans on the apbt, only pitbulls.
- These shelters do not temperament test in the way most would like to believe.. Because of this, many shelter dogs or poorly bred BYB's can turn out to have traits.........
if I pull a dog from a shelter, I spend 4 months in my home, work, fishing, church,whatever. I push my fosters to the limit and if thet dont meet my expectations then I make the appt to pts. I refuse to believe that a shelter dog labled as a pitbull mix should ever be considered anything else than what it "looks like" because thats setting up for denying bsl wont kill your dog.
You chose to adopt for your own reasons, which is great however you must keep in mind the knowns and unknowns and divide them as such.. If you wanted to know exactly what went into your dog you shouldn't have adopted..
And thats why we're here to educate. RIGHT?
You adopted a great family pet, nothing more and nothing less..[/
and i wish it were that easy........
Excellent post by the way....:D
 

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K9 Pshrynk & Conciliare~
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6,363 Posts
We've had several great genetic posts from pertaining to which came first red or black.. because the early dogs are brick red and the hair turns out to be red half way and black tipped.. black is a form of red .. red is a form of black .. dilute dilute..

The squares tell it best... the ones drawn with crayon... Then disect the questions as they fall .. But there are several threads on genetics already..
 

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English Dogge Yard
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3,441 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
if I pull a dog from a shelter, I spend 4 months in my home, work, fishing, church,whatever. I push my fosters to the limit and if thet dont meet my expectations then I make the appt to pts. I refuse to believe that a shelter dog labled as a putbull should ever be considered anything else than what it "looks like" because thats setting up for denying bsl wont kill your dog.
While i understand your train of thought i'll have to disagree completely with you here.. If we give in to what the media portrays as a "Pit Bull".. Whats the point? I would rather see the truth black and white, unknown dog is an unknown dog.. End of story. Regardless of BSL or not, its not so much denial as it is telling it how it is.. We all know mutts can look like purebred dogs, labeling a mutt an APBT or "Pit Bull" you are just feeding the media and the general publics misconceptions and lies.. Whats the point in educating if you are just going to go with it anyway?

I get what your saying and maybe its our thought processes that lead us to different views on this, either way i'll have to disagree with that.. lol
 

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K9 Pshrynk & Conciliare~
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Coming from SPCA end of it, they're all lumped together more so by OWNER and not the dog... If someone has staffys that are pure in blood back to colby and small and they are in troulbe on the TV for raising pit dogs then THEY WILL BE POSTED as PIT BULLS.. OKAY granted..

THE PROBLEM is labeling Pit Bull in general.. I have come to some hayday arguments with co workers would wanted to label puppies or dogs as begal mixes or boxer/lab mixes when clearly they were APBTs. They would say this is not a Pit Bull .. I would say your right its an American Pit Bull Terrier or I would use Am Staff too depending if the dog was more one way than the other... These people cant take it .. the idea that the best dogs in the world are the "pit" bulldog and terriers. These ladies would want to label dogs as this or that.. AFTER I had already labled their breed.. ISOLATION TECHNICIAN.. halfway house for pound dogs going over into adoption at the SPCA, also aggressive animals and euthanasia... who do you think answered their questions about everything else except what they didnt want to know. They were adopting an APBT or mix as a beagle mix.. or lab mix.. when I would lay it all out for them genetic wise .. :poop: really hit the fan and they turned into a personal attack style argument no longer about the dog. .. because its not.. its about PANDERING LIL TUSHIES SO PEOPLE CAN FEEL BETTER ABOUT THEIR OWN IGNORANCE...
such as: IGNORING OUR HISTORY as a country let alone how a DOG is tied to the COUNTRY itself.


pit bull is a slang term.. that replaced bulldog and bandog .. probably media driven in creation. As they were all bulldogs or bandogs until proven then they were American Pit Bull Terriers .. before UKC they were pit bulldogs/bullterriers both inter-twinning together as they are one. Thus the SPCA founder really slung mud at the PIT BULL name .. He had a vendetta against the MEN not the breed. ITS ALL ABOUT FREEDOM.. REALLY it is.

Regulation, Control, Mediation, Litagtation, Designation, then Appropriation...
to many of us we can simply say: (mind :curse: ed)

People who know the breed and the strains of the dogs, already use bulldog, bandog, terrier, hound( even though HOUND MEANS DOG most assume it means tracker, hounds were inbred from pit dogs too! follow the works) so for workers and dog men and women they know.. ITS THE MASSES that educate themselves through the propaganda spread by media and LAW ENFORCEMENT: to protect and serve... ORDER.. is what they leave off the car.

So what part of any that has to do with freedom? just the good ol boys breedin and raisin their hunting and ranch dogs to be able to go through hell and back and enjoy every minute of it... Thats all the freedom I see in all of this milarky that is just propaganda and red tape to change how people think and feel.. Manipulation to get people to litterally say: "here take my rights and give men what you think I should have"

ignorance... which is our freedom to be its also our downfall

In THIS country the PEOPLE are the authority and we have forgotten that...

its about regulating liberty and enforcing priviledges and forgetting about guarantees....
Bill of Rights ^^^^^^^ ring a bell?


You cannot regulate and enforce liberty, rights and guarantees behind a government body its always been and always will be up to the people.

it starts with lil things here and there far and wide.. LIKE bulldog ... terrier .. Pit Bulldog .. Pit Bullterrier .. Pit Terrier .. Game Bull Terrier and all of em the same dang bulldog but not by the minds and heart of the masses cause so much has been put in place to hide Americas Pit Bulldog and replace it with the brachyphilac english bulldog.
Aggies, Bulldogs, and what not such as Georgetown and Gonzaga actually have their mascot based on a APBT of the turn of the century.. a pit dog.. but no lets HIDE all of that.. SO people can lie to themselves and no matter WHAT.. Its ALWAYS someone elses fault..

.. :flush:


better stop there... before it starts................ small lil things add up to a big belief....
 

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I know you both understand how I feel but not so how i think...at least I think I can learn!!!Stan ive been there done that, learned it and lived it too! It left me scarred. but instead of laying down with the bleeding hearts, i hang with you guys. I agree with most of what your sayin and what i dont at least i understand it and can relate. whats important is that im being schooled! lol. truth, fantasy or media hype whatever, we are few they are many. how can the misconception be changed without education like this? At this point I think the pitbull problem is way too big.
Stan you touched on mislabeling dogs in a shelter? it is a sin in itself but
we should save that for a different thread!
 

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K9 Pshrynk & Conciliare~
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Your right dave, I just feel through time that the SPCA was the sole organization in the beginning to slander the breed... I also feel a lot of peoplese misconceptions of a pit bull rest with what theyve been told by such said places.. . I totally get what your saying.. It is another trhead in itself.. ..
 

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- The term "Pit Bull" is not a breed within itself but rather a general title given to all those dogs that fit within what the media claims is a "Pit Bull"..
very true KM, but it only matters what the authorities concider your dog to be. there is not many bans on the apbt, only pitbulls.
- These shelters do not temperament test in the way most would like to believe.. Because of this, many shelter dogs or poorly bred BYB's can turn out to have traits.........
if I pull a dog from a shelter, I spend 4 months in my home, work, fishing, church,whatever. I push my fosters to the limit and if thet dont meet my expectations then I make the appt to pts. I refuse to believe that a shelter dog labled as a pitbull mix should ever be considered anything else than what it "looks like" because thats setting up for denying bsl wont kill your dog.
You chose to adopt for your own reasons, which is great however you must keep in mind the knowns and unknowns and divide them as such.. If you wanted to know exactly what went into your dog you shouldn't have adopted..
And thats why we're here to educate. RIGHT?
You adopted a great family pet, nothing more and nothing less..[/
and i wish it were that easy........

Excellent post by the way....:D
I refer to my shelter dog as a pit bull mix, and I am using the term "pit bull" in a generic way. She was listed as a pit bull in the shelter and that was only a guess going by her looks. And, yes, I understand there is no such breed as "pit bull", but it is used as an umbrella term for many of the bully breed types.

When I fill out the paper work for my dogs immunizations, they REQUIRE you to list a breed, they do not accept "MIX" or "mutt" on the form. Therefore somebody has to make a "guess" as to the dog's breed.

My dogs are all mutts, but I can tell you that if BSL came into my area, they would be labeled as "pit bull mixes" at the very least, and mixes are usually always included in BSL. I can't hide the way they look.
 
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