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· Kelevra
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So what part of any that has to do with freedom? just the good ol boys breedin and raisin their hunting and ranch dogs to be able to go through hell and back and enjoy every minute of it... Thats all the freedom I see in all of this milarky that is just propaganda and red tape to change how people think and feel.. Manipulation to get people to litterally say: "here take my rights and give men what you think I should have"

ignorance... which is our freedom to be its also our downfall

In THIS country the PEOPLE are the authority and we have forgotten that...

its about regulating liberty and enforcing priviledges and forgetting about guarantees....
Bill of Rights ^^^^^^^ ring a bell?

You cannot regulate and enforce liberty, rights and guarantees behind a government body its always been and always will be up to the people.
.
are yall reading this?? you all need to be paying attention to these words! Its the part about the reason we founded this country slipping away to gov't control. "We the people" and youll better understand those words if you read more of this!!:goodpost::goodpost:

I refer to my shelter dog as a pit bull mix, and I am using the term "pit bull" in a generic way. She was listed as a pit bull in the shelter and that was only a guess going by her looks. And, yes, I understand there is no such breed as "pit bull", but it is used as an umbrella term for many of the bully breed types.

When I fill out the paper work for my dogs immunizations, they REQUIRE you to list a breed, they do not accept "MIX" or "mutt" on the form. Therefore somebody has to make a "guess" as to the dog's breed.

My dogs are all mutts, but I can tell you that if BSL came into my area, they would be labeled as "pit bull mixes" at the very least, and mixes are usually always included in BSL. I can't hide the way they look.
Stafford terrier or Staffordshire terrier would work for you at the vet (at least for the dog in your avatar) and you avoid the "pitbull" word all together.
 
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are yall reading this?? you all need to be paying attention to these words! Its the part about the reason we founded this country slipping away to gov't control. "We the people" and youll better understand those words if you read more of this!!:goodpost::goodpost:

Stafford terrier or Staffordshire terrier would work for you at the vet (at least for the dog in your avatar) and you avoid the "pitbull" word all together.
Do you mean AST or Staffordshire Bull Terrier? Which I believe both would still be targeted by BSL. Last time I vaccinated my dog in avatar I did fill out AST mix, but I'm not sure how much that would really help. I also have 3 other mixes which have what could be construed as "pit bull" type characteristics. I tell the general public that I have mutts but they are going to believe what they want.

HeavyJeep, do you really live in Paradise?
 

· K9 Pshrynk & Conciliare~
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I'd be the youngest president ever elected.... :rofl: Shoot, just put me on the ticket with Ron Paul and watch us clean this mess up............................................ Money backed by gold, is a biggie.
 

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money backed, outsourcing heavily taxed, immigrants treated like people and put on the right track, bush tax cuts nixed-problems solved
 

· English Dogge Yard
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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Stan definitely always has excellent posts and insight.. But lets try to keep this on the subject so new comers don't get distracted by all the politics ;) We can make a new thread for that.. Better yet lets get Ron Paul in and complete overhaul on the senate/congress.. ;)
 

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Gosh. You guys are on, like, the total opposite spectrum politically from me, half the time I don't even know what you guys are talking about, LOL. But it makes for some good reading. :)
here here, lol

But its not realistic to think that your dog, that is a pit bull type dog, would be considered a mutt. You can tell people til you are blue in the face that my dog is not an american pit bull terrier, I have an American Staffodshire terrier and they reply, "yeah a pit bull" 9 times out of 10. The one person I try and educate might end up listening. But to act like pit bulls, the generic term, isn't target by BSL just because you don't have a paper to prove its not an APBT, is ridiculous. Its how the dog looks to the public, not if the dog has the papers. And some places even target by saying any stocky body, shortish muzzle with a blocky head. I mean there are not just pit bulls with stocky bodies and block heads, it doesn't matter. If it looks like a pit bull it will be labeled the generic term pit bull by all agency's. It doesn't matter what you or I or the shelter labels them as, its how they look to the public and the animal control officer knocking on your door. Its how the bulding management thinks about what your dog looks like that matters. You can call it what you want, but the generic term pit bull should be perfectly acceptable. People should not have to cower and lie about what they might have, be real about it and deal with the haters and not try and deceive people who for 1 don't even know there are multiple breeds making up the term, and for 2 don't care cause it looks like a pit bull to them.

Some have said to call your non papered pit bull type dog a bull dog. I think many people get confused with that since that is in itself, its own breed. The pit bull is a generic term, why people who have APBT get upset by others that call their unknown mix a pit bull (a generic term) confuses me. They should be proud to own a APBT (which also happens to be considered a part of the many breeds commonly referred to as the generic term pit bull) instead of nit picking the generic term that is recognized by society to identify. When the news makes a report about a pit bull, they are not reporting it as an APBT, they are correctly using the generic term, pit bull which APBT actually ARE.
 
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· English Dogge Yard
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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
^ That is why i believe that rather than giving in to what the public "thinks" is correct, we as handlers need to push back with nothing but truth.. To give in is to lose the "fight" in ability to own these fine hounds.. Any other breed a "specialist" will tell you theres no way of knowing what your shelter dog is or isn't.. When it comes to anything that appears to be a "pit bull" though its without a doubt a "pit bull" no questions asked from these so called "experts" on the television.

Its not about denying BSL its about putting the truth first and foremost and those that have sense and experience should be the only ones doing so.. Not the fur mommy and daddy and surely not politicians or media outlets that have no experience with these hounds.

Why give in to what others perceive as correct? In my opinion it makes zero sense and counter productive with what we are wanting achieved in this country..
 

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^ That is why i believe that rather than giving in to what the public "thinks" is correct, we as handlers need to push back with nothing but truth.. To give in is to lose the "fight" in ability to own these fine hounds.. Any other breed a "specialist" will tell you theres no way of knowing what your shelter dog is or isn't.. When it comes to anything that appears to be a "pit bull" though its without a doubt a "pit bull" no questions asked from these so called "experts" on the television.

Its not about denying BSL its about putting the truth first and foremost and those that have sense and experience should be the only ones doing so.. Not the fur mommy and daddy and surely not politicians or media outlets that have no experience with these hounds.

Why give in to what others perceive as correct? In my opinion it makes zero sense and counter productive with what we are wanting achieved in this country..
but the problem is, it IS correct to refer to your dog as a pit bull since pit bull is a generic term, not a breed in itself. Its one thing to call your dog an APBT when you have no clue about heritage. its another to call it a pit bull, which is admittedly not a breed. Its not about giving in to others, sorry I was not meaning that, what I mean was call a spade a spade. If your dog is mixed with a pit bull type dog, its a pit bull no matter how much you would like people to call it a mutt, only the educated of the breed know the difference between the breeds that are lumped as pit bulls. Its one thing for someone to say they have an APBT without papers and another to call their dog a pit bull.

Also, there are many reputable breeders who have legit papers who have dogs under contract to come back to them if there is ever an issue and people don't care and still drop their papered pup at a shelter out of embarrassment or whatnot of going back to the breeder. Its not just BYB with hung papers at shelters. you can get really good dogs with legit papers at shelters, its all in how long you want to wait and how often you are looking.
 

· English Dogge Yard
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Discussion Starter · #31 · (Edited)
but the problem is, it IS correct to refer to your dog as a pit bull since pit bull is a generic term, not a breed in itself. Its one thing to call your dog an APBT when you have no clue about heritage. its another to call it a pit bull, which is admittedly not a breed. Its not about giving in to others, sorry I was not meaning that, what I mean was call a spade a spade. If your dog is mixed with a pit bull type dog, its a pit bull no matter how much you would like people to call it a mutt, only the educated of the breed know the difference between the breeds that are lumped as pit bulls. Its one thing for someone to say they have an APBT without papers and another to call their dog a pit bull.

Also, there are many reputable breeders who have legit papers who have dogs under contract to come back to them if there is ever an issue and people don't care and still drop their papered pup at a shelter out of embarrassment or whatnot of going back to the breeder. Its not just BYB with hung papers at shelters. you can get really good dogs with legit papers at shelters, its all in how long you want to wait and how often you are looking.
I disagree, the term pit bull used to be slang or shortened term referring to the APBT.. Up until recent history it has been used to group together the breeds we know are under the radar and treated as one. In my opinion theres nothing correct about grouping together a show hound and a working hound no matter what history they may share together, opposite ends of the spectrum on purpose and should be treated as such.

This is like saying you rescue a golden retriever mix (lets just say mixed with potential boxer just for the sake of example) but calling the mix a retriever.. When genetically theres only a % of that dog that is golden and genetically, may not swing that way in any form other than potentially appearance.. Maybe you see it differently than i do but i don't believe its fair to group any mix/unknown in the same crowd as purposely bred hounds.. Much less group all "retrievers", all "pit dogs", all "mastiffs" as one as there are differences among individual breeds that should be noted and not put together as one.. Even more so when we are talking about a wide spread ban...

Its not like we are talking about "sporting group", "working group", "show group" as a means of grouping all sporting/etc under similar purposes and functions.. We are talking about putting a little here little there all into one and we all know thats wrong.. Yet people accept it because its what they have adopted from media.

If you want to call a spade a spade, shelter mixes ARE mutts, mixes, crosses however you want to label them. They are not in no way, shape or form purebred.. A dog with no actual known knowledge of how they were bred than it should be treated as such as you can't prove anything based on appearance.. Mixes can take on shapes, sizes and structure including that of their purebred relatives..

Thats how i view things anyway.
 

· Proud CGC Parent
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You're right, KM.

The problem is that the majority of people are WRONG and base these dogs off looks. It's not about bowing down and accepting their wrong viewpoints. It's about being realistic to the crap and knowing that your pit bull-looking dog is a pit bull is a pit bull is a pit bull to them, whether they actually are or not.
 

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I see what u mean km just don't think the impression that might be left when calling a non papered pit bill a mutt in the eyes of who sees the dog for what it could be. Most people could care less about percentages of mix and most vets require the dominate mix to be noted. I hear what you are saying and would love to agree but don't find it realistic in society. Also never knew put was slang for apbt, makes sense but its not considered that anymore. I see your point and agree more damage is being done by the lack of knowledge on how many know what an am staff is vs am bully vs apbt. But I think trying to pretend your dog isn't perceived as one based on just looks is not realistic. I think the community needs to accept the generic term and move on to educate on an individual bases.

Kinda what Kane said, the owner looks like a liar even if they know the truth and the dog is not a apbt. Having people think you are a liar is just as damaging to a reputation as calling mixed dogs pit bulls is to true APBT owners. But why not embrace the generic term and get people to understand it instead of trying to change the minds of a few decades of influence.

Having said that some people who own these pit bulls the media tries to destroy are responsible and having them be called pit can work on your side and could be a good thing. I know my well behaved AmStaff, commonly referred to as a the generic term pit bull is a great example of representing with positivity.
 
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· English Dogge Yard
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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
I see what u mean km just don't think the impression that might be left when calling a non papered pit bill a mutt in the eyes of who sees the dog for what it could be. Most people could care less about percentages of mix and most vets require the dominate mix to be noted. I hear what you are saying and would love to agree but don't find it realistic in society. Also never knew put was slang for apbt, makes sense but its not considered that anymore. I see your point and agree more damage is being done by the lack of knowledge on how many know what an am staff is vs am bully vs apbt. But I think trying to pretend your dog isn't perceived as one based on just looks is not realistic. I think the community needs to accept the generic term and move on to educate on an individual bases.

Kinda what Kane said, the owner looks like a liar even if they know the truth and the dog is not a apbt. Having people think you are a liar is just as damaging to a reputation as calling mixed dogs pit bulls is to true APBT owners. But why not embrace the generic term and get people to understand it instead of trying to change the minds of a few decades of influence.

Having said that some people who own these pit bulls the media tries to destroy are responsible and having them be called pit can work on your side and could be a good thing. I know my well behaved AmStaff, commonly referred to as a the generic term pit bull is a great example of representing with positivity.
:goodpost: though i will say although it may not be realistic per se in the current state of times, continuously pushing knowledge and cold truths is what can prevail if we so chose for it.. I refuse to give in with what society THINKS they know about these hounds or anything in general thats nonsense but for this, for the APBT, we need to push the issue as times have in fact changed.. These hounds are no longer for the private yards and dog men/women.. Look at the damage since 76' and its evident.. However we can still adopt the old views very much into the new worlds way of thinking.. If not status quo will just continue to press forward.
 

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:goodpost: though i will say although it may not be realistic per se in the current state of times, continuously pushing knowledge and cold truths is what can prevail if we so chose for it.. I refuse to give in with what society THINKS they know about these hounds or anything in general thats nonsense but for this, for the APBT, we need to push the issue as times have in fact changed.. These hounds are no longer for the private yards and dog men/women.. Look at the damage since 76' and its evident.. However we can still adopt the old views very much into the new worlds way of thinking.. If not status quo will just continue to press forward.
amen, i love you km
 

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I have tried calling my girl a mutt - but then I get corrected by people who see the apparent "pit bull" in her. Others ask me if she is 'full pit'... to which I honestly say no. I always say "I believe she is half" but that she is a shelter mutt so who knows for sure. (she was labeled as 'pit bull' in the shelter) However, if she were involved in any incident, there is no doubt in my mind she would be labeled as a 'pit bull' or 'pit bull mix' so I'm not going to simply say she is a 'mutt' when no one would agree (except, respectfully, KM). I also don't believe in reinforcing the media's 'pit bull' title by giving it credibility and not correcting it at every opportunity - an APBT is an APBT no doubt about it. A mastiff mix is not a 'pit bull', for a random example, and should not be called as such in a news story. I, however, do support the thought that if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, that it probably has got duck in it.
 

· K9 Pshrynk & Conciliare~
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I have tried calling my girl a mutt - but then I get corrected by people who see the apparent "pit bull" in her. Others ask me if she is 'full pit'... to which I honestly say no. I always say "I believe she is half" but that she is a shelter mutt so who knows for sure. (she was labeled as 'pit bull' in the shelter) However, if she were involved in any incident, there is no doubt in my mind she would be labeled as a 'pit bull' or 'pit bull mix' so I'm not going to simply say she is a 'mutt' when no one would agree (except, respectfully, KM). I also don't believe in reinforcing the media's 'pit bull' title by giving it credibility and not correcting it at every opportunity - an APBT is an APBT no doubt about it. A mastiff mix is not a 'pit bull', for a random example, and should not be called as such in a news story. I, however, do support the thought that if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, that it probably has got duck in it.
as soon as someone asks if your dog is a pit or is full pit..

There is no breed: pit bull... there are bulldogs, bandogs, terriers, and the American Pit Bull Terrier. Then you can easily say, no my dog is not an APBT.

Bulldog is the best universal term. back in the hay day.. Pit Bull was used as a shortened name for the APBT. Now pitbull is just slang that covers everything in the bull and terrier breeds almost bandogs as well.
 

· English Dogge Yard
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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
as soon as someone asks if your dog is a pit or is full pit..

There is not breed at pit bull... there are bulldogs, bandogs, terriers, and the American Pit Bull Terrier. Then you can easily say, no my dog is not an APBT.

Bulldog is the best universal term. back in the hay day.. Pit Bull was used as a shortened name for the APBT. Now pitbull is just slang that covers everything in the bull and terrier breeds almost bandogs as well.
Exactly.. No excuses honestly, whether accepted by the general public or not its the handlers responsibility to correct the foolish terms and assumptions.. In the end you can't cure stupid but you can make a fairly positive impact.. The problem is within as well.. People adapting to whats accepted to define or teach is not the proper method.
 
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