[KMdogs]

Most people would be confused if I told them he was a bulldog, though, however accurate it might be. Bulldog = english bulldog for most people. I'd have to explain that to them. As for rescue, I don't feel comfortable telling people he's a rescue because he's not. Rescue, to me, is a dog from a shelter or an actual rescue. Not a puppy from a breeder I was too stupid to realize was a BYB.

That's why I go with BYB pit bull. You tell that to the general public, the people you're most likely to run into on the street, and they know what you're talking about. No confusion.

To me, and i mean no offense to you here, is the lazy way out.. That would be like me accepting that the common person coming up to me telling me i have nice looking "Pit Bulls".. Thats not what they are and if i have to take 5 minutes to explain to them, in baby terms, what they are and what an APBT is i will.. If they get it and i have time to further educate them i will.. If they don't i tried and move on.. You can't cure stupid but you can attempt to educate those that are misguided..

As stated before, i've helped a good amount of people locally and some refused to give in to what they thought they knew at first.. I don't pretend to believe i can change everyones mind but i do know you educate one.. That one will educate another or bring them to you... Etc.. To accept the wrongful information and what the general public *thinks*... Thats not exactly productive no matter if one means well or doesn't..

I have a very "old school" way of thinking i guess..

 

[k8nkane]

I understand what you're saying. And I'm all for education as that's the only thing that can really help save the pit bull type dogs.

It's just that 99.9% of people DON'T CARE. Not even that they wouldn't understand what I'm trying to tell them after a time, but that they just don't care. They see a "pit bull" and they don't look beyond the surface to all the intricacies underneath.

I've met a handful of people on the street that genuinely seemed to care about what I had to say and my efforts to educate them. But when the majority of people I come into contact with are those that happen to be walking by and go, "nice pit girl" or "aw, isn't he just the cutest pittie!", I'm not going to waste my breath spending 5-10-15 minutes explaining why they're WRONG, when all they want to do is give me a compliment on my dog and nothing more. It'll go in one ear and out the other, with an expression like I'm freaking crazy to boot.

It's like complimenting someone on their shirt and then having them take up another 20 minutes of your time explaining, well, no this isn't actually cotton, it's mostly polyester and the dye isn't such-and-such but actually ...

At what point in that conversation would you start tuning that person out and just start nodding your head, hoping to get away as fast as possible from the loony person who thinks you actually care about that sort of thing?

 

[Old_Blood]

LOL Any APBT bred for the show ring is a show dog.. How can anyone argue that? AST wasn't always a show breed and at one point one of the same with APBT.. Breed the APBT towards the show ring we already know how that ends..

Never argued that. You need to read your statement and re read my reply. Here is what you said.

As to the Gazette you are absolutely correct however like in my last post i consider these show dogs, regardless of game bred or not to be AST's.. Or at best, performance ASTs.. May not fit what the registry says an AST is in terms of physical and structure.. However in the end these show apbts aren't exactly going to for fill the purpose of which these hounds were bred for..

Like my original reply said you don't have to show to advertise in the gazette. It isn't only show dogs or those bred for show. You're reply read as if you consider dogs bred for the box or proven dogs "show dogs" or "ast". They are GAME BRED dogs. The proven ones are bulldogs. What the pups/unproven turn out to be depends on the buyer pet, show dog, shelter dog, game dog or pull dog, ect.

Americanpit was clearly taking about how these dogs are sold left and right.

I consider GR CH Lukane x Hellfire to be game bred litter with the purpose of creating bulldogs! (this breeding produced winners/game)If you saw an add with an Earl Jr male called Tank he's a 1xw. These are not show dogs, I could fill the page with examples of world famous dogs or those that I know of.

All APBTs are high drive in order to successfully [] and win they must have the heart and ability.. Function and drive.. Of course, game. No "real" bulldog is going to lack drive.. High drive is not the same as high energy and yes, not all are "wild" and a few knew how to turn it off and could actually be around other hounds with little DA issues until it came down to the box.. Not the norm by any means but yeah.

I realize high drive and high energy are not the same. What is high drive? That you are describing that they all have? I see difference from one dog to the next to say all are like this. I wasn't even talking about turning DA off but thats true too. There are dogs who have the will to fight but are not dog reactive or fight crazy. My male proven bulldog (may he RIP in bulldog heaven) would be calm most the time, certain situations or elements would bring the excitement, desire to fight out of him.

You dont know a hound has APBT in them by just looking at them, you might can guess but you dont know for a fact... Especially when it comes to mixes and mutts.. It is fair to call a "pit bull" mix a mutt because thats what it is.. A mutt is two or several breeds mixed together, no purpose at random.

So true. I'm not exactly in full disagreement with your original point. That's why again I tell people their dog may or may not be a Pit. If its from a shelter, was a stray or came from a half ass breeder they can't be certain.

I've seen extremely DA Labradors, DA Boxers just to give a few.. DA is not limited to our breed and when you start mixing genetics DA can happen to any mix that does not have APBT or any bull and terrier.. DA is not a breed specific trait, now DA does run extremely thick in these hounds and the likelyhood of you having a non DA bulldog is very unlikely and a non DA Labrador has better chances.. Point is you can't say "That mix is DA therefore...."

Again true! However if you know about the APBT then you know its more than just DA. It's fighting style and ability that can cause issues, even a dog social Pit that finds itself could be a totally different animal. I've seen lots of DA Boxers too but if a Boxer fights minimal damage is likely done. If a Pit fights you need a breaking stick or some know how. Serious damage can happen. People always say I make the breed sound bad, vicious, blah blah. I'd rather drive home the seriousness of their fighting capability and prevent another tragedy. I guess its all in how you raise em and its fine to take friendly pibbles to the dog park sounds better.

Old_blood pretty soon we are just going to go into a circle so we will just have to agree to disagree.. A proven hound that ends up at the shelter will be PTS virtually right then and there, a game dog put under the stress of living with potentially hundreds of dogs in closed conditions will not last.. Also, as fast as gameness can be housed it can disappear.. You make it sound like its possible for someone to go to HS and adopt a game dog.. That will never happen..

You're probably right. I have to stand by my experience and what I know. Which while I agree with you on some things, you've not had the sane experiences. Those are what gives anyone their greatest convictions.

Not all shelters nor dogs are the same.

As stated YES, these dogs can end up at the shelter but based on my experience, its not as frequent as you make it out to be and even if you are the lucky one to adopt out a purebred.. You can't prove what you don't know and you don't know what you can't prove to yourself.. That sums that up.. If you don't know what your feeding you don't know..

You're right but I do know my dogs littermates pedigree, ect. So it can happen, msybe not often.

I agree that we have no way to know. You could adopt a game bred dog or a boxer/am bulldog mix, but you'll never know either way. So it makes no difference. The new owners of her and the others have no idea what they got. They don't know they have finely bred dogs nor are they going to match them. People can't know what they got by looking.

No one adopts a dog from a shelter who wants a specific purpose bred hound, occasionally you might find someone looking at breed specific rescues but if your looking for a world class working hound your going to go to the source not a rescue or shelter.. You can't call these unknowns at the shelters the same as working hounds, IMO disrespectful and wrong.. Obvious reasons.. Aside from my personal opinions you don't know what your feeding so treat it as such.. Spade a spade.

You forgot to say no one YOU know.
I don't think its disrespectful if they work. They are proving themselves by function. If the bloodhound finds kidnap victims and murder suspects its doing the job. This dog came from the shelter but is working right along side the working bred Border Collie.

So no, hounds like Gr Ch 35 can not be adopted as it takes hard work and dedication to keep that gameness instilled and alive.. I think its wrong of anyone to give someone the false impression you can find a purpose bred hound, ready to work from an HS..

I've no reason to give anyone a false impression. I don't believe everyone can find what they want at the shelter. I like selectively bred dogs myself.

I don't know what shelters your going to but i've rarely seen hounds of any type with true DRIVE get adopted.. HYPER yes, extremely active yes.. Drive no. I think your either confusing drive with other traits or something.. I've helped shelters, been to several across the southeast, have friends involved in the medical aspect of HS's, training, etc.. I've seen my fair share and more than a "normal" person.. Never seen a hound with drive at any type of shelter.. Well, i've seen them enter but not for long.

Highly doubt I'm confusing it with something else but you could take the time to enlighten me.

Could say that's a shame but maybe its for the better in some cases, because the dogs can just end up brought back. Not to mention bad outcomes when people can't handle a dog with drive.

 

[KMdogs]

I understand what you're saying. And I'm all for education as that's the only thing that can really help save the pit bull type dogs.

It's just that 99.9% of people DON'T CARE. Not even that they wouldn't understand what I'm trying to tell them after a time, but that they just don't care. They see a "pit bull" and they don't look beyond the surface to all the intricacies underneath.

I've met a handful of people on the street that genuinely seemed to care about what I had to say and my efforts to educate them. But when the majority of people I come into contact with are those that happen to be walking by and go, "nice pit girl" or "aw, isn't he just the cutest pittie!", I'm not going to waste my breath spending 5-10-15 minutes explaining why they're WRONG, when all they want to do is give me a compliment on my dog and nothing more. It'll go in one ear and out the other, with an expression like I'm freaking crazy to boot.

It's like complimenting someone on their shirt and then having them take up another 20 minutes of your time explaining, well, no this isn't actually cotton, it's mostly polyester and the dye isn't such-and-such but actually ...

At what point in that conversation would you start tuning that person out and just start nodding your head, hoping to get away as fast as possible from the loony person who thinks you actually care about that sort of thing?

This is why, in my opinion it is important for all to be on the same boat.. American Bully breeders need to be promoting, registering as American Bullies.. Nothing more nothing less.. Same goes with all these breeds advertised as "Pit Bulls"... Registries need to get a grip on what they used to be about and do something about it, the dogs.. The more everyone thats involved with these dogs in any form are on the same page, the more of an impact there will be vs one here, one there..

Of course, this is asking for ALOT especially given the state of things.. However its not IMPOSSIBLE and it should already be a GIVEN.. Its all marketing.. BYB's have cashed out majorly on public perception and ignorance..

If i were a breeder of APBT's and someone came up asking me if i sold "Pits".. I would turn them away or if they seemed worth the time to educate, mentor them.. Its that easy yet many "breeders" and even legit breeders breeding for the hounds don't do this.. Its greed that is driving the path and it should be the hounds..

The ones that are in it for the hounds, you don't hear about.. Those that own proper bulldogs, you don't hear about.. Its the fad, the now, the popular.. When it dies and moves on its going to either go in favor or against the all APBT..

Until then, in attempt, i will do my best but as i've said.. I won't give in to what others think they know.. It's not how it works.. We have the power to fix the problems but as a whole lack the drive.. We all claim to be for one thing but not very many are doing much to help.. Not saying anyone here but as a whole..

 

[KMdogs]

You're probably right. I have to stand by my experience and what I know. Which while I agree with you on some things, you've not had the sane experiences. Those are what gives anyone their greatest convictions.

And that is what we all go on.. No substitute for hands on experience and thats where the knowledge begin.. What you have experienced and what i have experienced may be quite similar but obviously on this particular subject, it differs.. One also has to consider that two can share the same experience but take different things from that same experience.. Utilize it to their own ability..

It is what it is, as i've said for the most part we are coming from the same place but beating to a different tune.. To what we disagree to, i'm sure we will continue to do so but at least it gives an outsider looking in food for thought.

At least we are able to do so in a respectful manor.. No harm in disagreements as no two people agree on everything.. Problem is when lack of respect emerges, no one learns anything..

 

[k8nkane]

Aren't you supposed to be making us cry because we disagree with you, KM? :hammer:

 

[KMdogs]

Aren't you supposed to be making us cry because we disagree with you, KM? :hammer:

Not if it makes sense.. After all i know on these type of subjects theres not always one answer.. Plus i like you so i'm cutting you a break.. Keep it up and you'll get your slapped to 2012 and back.. :rofl:

 

[k8nkane]

Oh, thank you, thank you, KM. You are so kind and merciful. *bows and scrapes before you* lol

 

[KMdogs]

Oh, thank you, thank you, KM. You are so kind and merciful. *bows and scrapes before you* lol

LOL well you know, i can't beat you all the time k8n.. Got to show the compassion so you keep coming back for more punishment.

 

[Old_Blood]

Wow typing on a phone sure is slow

See and the thing is you cant prove Kane's lineage nor is he a proven game dog. But you bought him as a pit and people will recognize him as such. I don't think calling him a Byb pit is wrong exactly. He is from a breeder that may or may not have pure bred and wasn't breeding true APBTs, but he is a probable mostly pit bull from a genetic stand point. You can explain, I'm not really sure of his background, he isn't bred to be a proper working APBT. If they want to know more they'll ask and you can educate them on what a real APBT is. If not they will say ok and move on. You have to "pick your battles". Will this person listen or do you just say thanks and walk on.

When people compliment my dogs, ask what type of pit, ect I get responses ranging from looks like I must be confused or outright had dumb asses tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

When you tell them your dog is an APBT for instance. The only real kind.
"oh its mixed with terrier"
"looks like a red nose to me"
"i had an American before, my brother has a blue nose"
One guy had a German Pit Bull whatever that is, I've heard other people say the same.

You got to take a deep breath then dive in. If they are truly idiots its not worth an arguement.

 

[zohawn]

This is why, in my opinion it is important for all to be on the same boat.. American Bully breeders need to be promoting, registering as American Bullies.. Nothing more nothing less.. Same goes with all these breeds advertised as "Pit Bulls"... Registries need to get a grip on what they used to be about and do something about it, the dogs.. The more everyone thats involved with these dogs in any form are on the same page, the more of an impact there will be vs one here, one there..

Of course, this is asking for ALOT especially given the state of things.. However its not IMPOSSIBLE and it should already be a GIVEN.. Its all marketing.. BYB's have cashed out majorly on public perception and ignorance..

If i were a breeder of APBT's and someone came up asking me if i sold "Pits".. I would turn them away or if they seemed worth the time to educate, mentor them.. Its that easy yet many "breeders" and even legit breeders breeding for the hounds don't do this.. Its greed that is driving the path and it should be the hounds..

The ones that are in it for the hounds, you don't hear about.. Those that own proper bulldogs, you don't hear about.. Its the fad, the now, the popular.. When it dies and moves on its going to either go in favor or against the all APBT..

Until then, in attempt, i will do my best but as i've said.. I won't give in to what others think they know.. It's not how it works.. We have the power to fix the problems but as a whole lack the drive.. We all claim to be for one thing but not very many are doing much to help.. Not saying anyone here but as a whole..

i agree 100%, gameness is completely lost in humans now days

 

[Chloesmygirl]

I see it this way too. A terrier is a dog used for a certain job, as is a bulldog, a herding dog or scent hound. You call a dog by its function. However I feel it irresponsible for me to call a dog I know is a pit or believe to possibly be pit mix simply a mutt. Pits really need responsible owners to prevent tragedy and more bad press. People need to be aware of what they have, the possibilities and the dos and don'ts. Otherwise when new owner takes their "mutt" to the dog park, because he acts friendly, and a fight breaks out, the other dog gets seriously injured its my fault. They're ignorance is due to me not sharing important information.

:goodpost: :goodpost:

Old_Blood you have made several excellent posts throughout this thread, especially post #83.

I have come to the conclusion that for me, it is best to say pit mix or pit bull mix, depending on who I am talking to. If I am filling out paperwork I can't put down "shelter dog", that just isn't going to fly. I have used the term "AST mix" on occasion.

When you are signing up for a dog training class, they want an "idea" of what breed you are bringing to class not just "shelter dog" or mutt. They want an idea of what you think the dog's predominant breed is. Same thing with the vet's office, vaccination clinics, county licensing agency, etc.

Now I happen to be standing in line getting my dog's vaccinations. There was another lady in line behind me and she asked me what kind of dog I have. I told her "just a mutt'. So it really depends who's asking or what mood I am in.

If I were to say bulldog, then people would think I am talking about the English Bulldog most likely. So that term would not work well for me.

 

[K9Jessie]

I just want to say I have never heard anyone refer to APBTs as hounds or any other breeds except Blood hounds, and **** hounds.lol.

 

[Blue_Nose_Bella]

I just want to say I have never heard anyone refer to APBTs as hounds or any other breeds except Blood hounds, and **** hounds.lol.

Any dogs that come from a shelter without knowing the history and or having the papers to prove purity you can basically just call it a mutt/hound.... pit mix, lab mix, GSD mix etc.

 

[Rudy4747]

I just want to say I have never heard anyone refer to APBTs as hounds or any other breeds except Blood hounds, and **** hounds.lol.

A good many of people who use their dogs for hunting will refer to any of their working dogs as hounds. :thumbsup: Hound is a general term for hunting dogs. So a good working APBT falls in that group. What a bound Grey hounds completely different from the two breeds you mentioned?

 

[redog]

I just want to say I have never heard anyone refer to APBTs as hounds or any other breeds except Blood hounds, and **** hounds.lol.

I know! right? so many have it ass backwards and the confusion runs rampid still.

 

[ames]

I just want to say I have never heard anyone refer to APBTs as hounds or any other breeds except Blood hounds, and **** hounds.lol.

haha I know right. I prefer bull dog or mutt personally for my boy All the same thing unpapered dogs that we love papers or not Most everyone else call him a pit bull. Oh well keep spreading the knowledge t those wanting to listen is all we can do

 

[K9Jessie]

Any dogs that come from a shelter without knowing the history and or having the papers to prove purity you can basically just call it a mutt/hound.... pit mix, lab mix, GSD mix etc.

But what if the dog came from a breed specific rescue? Like a GSD rescue, but has no papers? I would say GSDs are easier to identify than a simple "pit mix" as that can be anything."

 

[K9Jessie]

A good many of people who use their dogs for hunting will refer to any of their working dogs as hounds. :thumbsup: Hound is a general term for hunting dogs. So a good working APBT falls in that group. What a bound Grey hounds completely different from the two breeds you mentioned?

I can see that for hunting dogs.

I don't know why Grey hounds have the termn Hound in them. I think they fall under the "sight hound" category.

 

[K9Jessie]

haha I know right. I prefer bull dog or mutt personally for my boy All the same thing unpapered dogs that we love papers or not Most everyone else call him a pit bull. Oh well keep spreading the knowledge t those wanting to listen is all we can do

I would say Bully Mix if I were labeling the dogs such as for vet papers and things like that. I think mutt is cute and adorable. I have no idea why people get all up in arms when someone calls their maltipoo a mutt.lol.